The wood finishing industry of today

Hi,

My name is Greg Saunders and I am the field Rep for Annex Paint and Lacquer in Reseda California.

The California Wood finisher is a unique and rare creature whose technology, materials and operating climate are changing on him all the time ( as if running a business isn’t hard enough) I have started this blog to log the various changes and developments in the wood finishing industry and to document all of the tips and tricks I have come to learn over the years.  Your input is welcome, Ask a question and I will get you an answer. If I don’t know the answer I have the names and numbers of chemists, the AQMD reps and Manufactures in my phone book I’ll  get the information and publish it for all to have.

 Specifically I service the wood finishing industry, cabinet and furniture shops, large and small in the LA area from Long beach to Oxnard.  We sell and deliver several different brands of Lacquer, Pre catalyzed lacquer, Conversion varnishes, polyurethanes, polyesters, and stains in both water base materials as well as nitrocellulose based materials. We carry Gemini, Simpson, Renner, Old masters stains and a host of others. If we don’t have a product you are looking for it we can often  get it for you. We custom match and tint stains and Lacquers as well we  provide Free delivery and on site assistance to our customers.  

Wood working and finishing is a passion of mine and I enjoy what I do. for this reason I have gotten this blog going to share tips tricks and useful information to my customers and all those that are wood workers whether  professional or Hobbyists.  

Visit our new on line catalog, we are building it as we go you are welcome to place orders and leave comments : www.annexpaint.com

California is a unique  region for the wood finisher, we have the strictest regulations in the union such that most of the major national manufactures don’t have much reality on how to apply their own Low VOC materials that are specifically manufactured for this region.

Going green is becoming a reality as the quality of water-based products comes around to the lacquer standards. While the various authorities a talking about tightening even further the regulations on the allowable standards for VOC compliance.  Spraying Water based materials is a different kettle of fish requiring a certain amount of education and the proper equipment. I will be featuring information on how to use these new materials as well as what I am finding  when these newer materials are applied in the fields

Add all of the above factors together with the current economy and we find our selves in challenging times.  In future posts I’ll be discussing the various products I come across and how they perform. I welcome your comments, suggestions and questions.

Best,

Greg Saunders

ANNEX PAINT
818-344-3000

How to finish a wooden sink bowl

This is an interesting one that I thought I would share. A furniture designer from Lithuania wrote to me  asking for help with a wooden sink bowl. I have no pictures to share on this one but after I composed the reply I thought there were a few things in the reply that wood finishers would appreciate.

I have changed the original message from the designed only slightly to protect his identity.

Hello,

My name is Tomas, I am an independent furniture designer. 
Currently I have an order to produce a wooden bathroom sink and it seems that you have some products that could assist me in doing this.
Could you recommend a varnish for such a job (the only requirement is that the varnish needs to be glossy)? From what I understand, the varnish, that would be suitable for a wooden sink, must be hot water-resistant, it also needs to seal the pores of wood well. 
If you have a suitable project, how much water does it let through? Are there any special varnishing techniques? 
Do you have a sales representative in Lithuania? 

Thank you in advance!

Hi Tomas,

Thanks for your inquire; There are two routes to go with a project like this. the first is to use a “food-grade” oil for the proposed sink and instruct the customer that they will have to oil it regularly. This is the sort of coating you have on wooden salid  bowls.
 
For something like that you would have to design it in such a way that it was completely sealed on the bottom and in the drain hole as anywhere you have a penetration or where water is going to collect it is eventually going to make its way into the wood and begin to rot the wood. As a note, I would design the bowl in such away so as to be sure that it doesn’t ever sit in water. For example have it on a metal or plastic pedestal so that any water on the sink counter drains off of it. Standing water will be the enemy you’ll have to overcome.
 
The next problem that you’ll have to overcome is getting a coating that is hard enough to withstand the abuse that a sink will get and yet soft enough to expand and contract with temperature changes.
 
For note: I would never warrantee something like that as the moment someone drops something sharp in the bowl and penetrates the coating you are going to have a place where water is going to eventually seep in and then lift you coating.

The next thing to consider is the wood you are going to use. Ideally I would use the hardest wood you can find; epay or iron wood.

All of the above being said I would then suggest the CIC two component water based urethane.  Or the Permashield 200 from monopole both of these products are good the Permashield 200 is a product that is approved for food servicing areas by the US department of Agriculture (USDA). Both of these you can find on my web site at : www.annexpaint.com

In terms of special application procedures for this application. I would do several things; once the bowl was ready for finishing I would wet it with warm water just making it slightly damp. As you are using a water based product this will not react badly with the coating and in fact what it will do is lower the surface tension of the wood which will allow the coating to soak into all the grain pores. Next I would put down several light coats of the polyurethane that are thinned down as much as recommended and as well heated to about 100 degrees Fahrenheit. This will further reduce the viscosity and allow it to soak in as much as possible. Repeat the coating  with a light but thorough sanding in-between coats as many time necessary to achieve the build you want but with a minimum of  4 of 5 coats. Only the first or second coat need the additional reduction, the purpose of this is to achieve maximum penetration into the wood. Lastly I would let it cure for three weeks to ensure that it has reached its maximum hardness before giving it to the customer.

I’m sorry I don’t have a rep in Lithuania but if you would like to fly me over I would love to come. I haven’t shipped material overseas as it is rather coast prohibitive for customers.

The two companies who might have a suitable product are Renner and Icsam  they are both Italian and have very good materials.

Best,

  Greg Saunders

 Cell:      818-439-9297
Office:  818-344-3000
Fax:      818-344-3994

greg@annexpaint.com

www.annexpaint.com

I wonder if my boss would fly me to Lithuania?? 

 

CI Centurion Acrylic lacquer in action

I have been reporting on the acrylic lacquer for the last few years yet few of the die-hard finishers have taken up the new technology, for better or worse in our industry getting up and running with a new product, water-based materials or other wise is a trying activity experimenting with you customers kitchens is a risky business and with economic conditions as they are these aren’t the times to venture away from the norm, or are they?

Having a technologically superior product that is easy to apply could be the thing that would put you ahead of the crowd could be the ticket to your survival in this cut throat market.

The Church of Scientology has been on a project to up grade and renovate their various facilities around the country. After extensive testing they decided on using the Centurion acrylic Lacquer from CIC  Coatings they needed something that was commercial grade tough and as well crystal clear which wouldn’t yellow. As well they wanted a product that was as environmentally friendly. The CIC Acrylic lacquer met all these qualities It doesn’t yellow as it is not nitro-cellulous, it’s as hard as a pre-Catalysed lacquer yet it has the moisture resistance of a urethane, it is low VOC and has a relatively low odor.

The Finishing contractor, Jody Toole, of Jody tools Finishing (http://www.jodytoole.com/) has been applying the product with an Kremlin Air assisted Airless spray rig has been over joyed at the results he has been getting.

the following are a few pictures of  one of the recent  Church of Scientology churches which have been renovated using the CIC Acrylic lacquer.

Non yellowing CIC acrylic lacquer

CIC “TL” acrylic lacquer passes the water boarding test,

I have a customer who loves the CIC TL acrylic lacquer, while I was in his shop the other day he showed me the results of a scientific study he was performing with the product, I was so impressed I videoed the test.

The Finisher is Jody Toole and he operates in the LA area doing custom wood finishing if you are interested in contacting him here is a link to his blog: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

The Centurion Acrylic lacquer is a low VOC acrylic lacquer. Acrylics are different than nitrocellulose lacquers, a little more expensive but far superior, they are harder and don’t yellow, as well it is self sealing and they don’t smell as bad when you are spraying them out. This particular product is and advanced Hybrid of what was referred to as a “Cab Acrylic”, the old cab acrylic were very clear didn’t yellow but were relatively soft. the TL series is very hard.

As you’ll see in the short video Jody had his Starbucks cold drink plastic cups on a walnut panel he has finished 6 months ago. He has placed his cups on the panel every day for the last 6 months, as you can see there is not water damage, I love it when I get impressed with my own products. If you are interested in purchasing this product please feel free to contact me Greg Saunders Annex paint at: greg@annexpaint.com

 

thanks if you have any questions please feel free to contact me

Greg
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com

Spray Gun Tip Sizes

The following is the complete article on the subject of spray tip sizes as written by Phil Stevens, I  have received  their permission to reprint this article , Phil is a founding member of AWFI, American Wood Finishing institute, and has trained thousands of people on the Correct technology of finishing, including myself. I took a Finishing course put on by  AWFI out here in southern california and came away from the training very skilled.  If you ever have the opportunity to do their training program it is well worth the investment. This article was taken from Phil’s Blog from the Finishing IQ.com site  http://www.finishingiq.com 

Having toiled over correct tip sizing with different manufactures I stumbled across this article while getting a Kremlin set up for a customer the article answered my questions clearly and concisely so rather than spending the time to re write Phil’s article  I decided to plagiarise it completely  (with permission ) and give the credit where credit was due.

Choosing the correct tip and gun set-up for your spray equipment can be very confusing. The overwhelming number of tip sizes, set-up options and differing nomenclature between the equipment manufacturers often leads to finishing problems as a result of using the wrong size of tip.
U.S. manufacturers often use thousandths of an inch to designate the size of the tip. However, many U.S. manufacturers also use millimeters to classify tip size on some of their equipment. This is especially true when specifying HVLP spray gun set-ups. Other non-U.S. manufacturers use millimeters and other types of nomenclature that does not refer to either millimeters or thousandths of an inch. Here are some of the common nomenclature definitions used for some of the spray equipment manufacturers that are used in the wood finishing industry.

Graco
Graco air assisted airless tip sizes: A “512” tip is read as if the first number (5) is doubled to equal 10, which designates the spray pattern width of a minimum of 10 in. wide at a distance of 12 in. from the end of the tip. The second and third number – or in this example, the 12 – represent the tip opening size as 0.012/in. Therefore, if your tip is a “614” number, it would be a 12-in. fan pattern and a 0.014 tip opening.

Graco HVLP and conventional guns are designated as either millimeter or thousandths of an inch or both on the gun set-up size.

Kremlin
Kremlin air assisted airless tip sizes: A “09 -114” – the first number of “09” designates the orifice opening size of the tip, however, the “09” does not refer to either thousandths of an inch or millimeters. It is a numbering system that Kremlin uses to define the orifice size opening. A “06” number is a smaller orifice opening than as “09”. A “12” tip would be larger than a “09”. A “06” equals approximately 0.011/inch. A “09” equals approximately 0.013/inch. A “12” tip equals approximately 0.015/inch. The second set of numbers after the dash refers to the fan pattern width in degrees of arc. A “114” equals 114 degrees of arc in the width of the fan pattern. Therefore, a “94” will be narrower than a “114”. A “134” will be significantly wider than a “114”.

Kremlin HVLP spray gun nomenclature normally uses millimeters to designate tip sizes. Therefore, a 1.0mm tip will be smaller than a 1.5mm.

Binks
Binks air assisted airless tip sizes: For a “114 – 01310”, the “114” designates a standard flat tip. The first three numbers after the dash (“013”) equals thousandths of an inch or 0.013/in. in this example. The last two numbers, or the number “10” in this example, designates a fan pattern width of 10 in. at a distance of 12 in. from the end of the tip. If the tip starts with a “9 – 1311F”, the “9” and the “F” designate that it is a fine finishing tip with a pre-orifice. The tip would have a 0.013/in. orifice opening and an 11 in. fan pattern at a distance of 10 in. from the tip.

Binks HVLP spray gun nomenclature uses gun set-up numbers that must be referenced from their literature to determine their size. Most often they will be referenced with both millimeter and thousandths of an inch.
DeVilbiss
DeVilbiss standard spray guns, HVLP guns and trans-tech guns use millimeters to define the size of the tip and gun set-up.

What size tip is right for your application process?
Tip sizes will vary greatly, depending on the types of material sprayed, the viscosity of the coating, how much material needs to be applied (flow rate), whether it is pressure-fed, siphon-fed or gravity-fed and whether the application is manual vs. automatic spray.

For very low viscosity spray-to-color stains using HVLP gravity-fed spray guns, a 1.2mm to 1.4mm tip will work well. For pressure-fed HVLP guns spraying spray-to-color stains, a 1.0mm to 1.2mm set-up will normally be the range used for tip size. If you are spraying the same material with automated spray HVLP, a 0.08mm to 1.0mm tip size is recommended.

For spraying spray-to-color materials that are slightly higher in viscosity, such as a shader, an HVLP gun normally will work well if the tip size is increased by 0.2mm to 0.4mm for all of the above technologies.
Wiping stains spray best with air assisted airless technology. We recommend using a 0.06 to0 .094 tip size for Kremlin equipment; for all other manufacturers, a 0.28mm or a 0.009 tip orifice size will be adequate. An 8-in. fan pattern width is an average size for applying wiping stains. Larger or smaller pieces require a larger or narrower fan pattern width.

For solids, sealers and clear coats, an air assisted airless gun is recommended. Tip orifice opening size should equal around 0.013/inch. For Kremlin, this would equal a “09” tip. Pattern width of the tip generally ranges from 6 to 12 in. depending on the width of the parts. A wide fan pattern will often provide a more uniform coat with less runs and sags; however, a narrow tip will ensure higher transfer efficiency on narrower parts. Therefore, an average tip size for Kremlin would be a “09 – 114”; for Graco, a “513”; for Binks, a “114 – 01310”.

For heavy bodied primers and glazes, a 0.015 tip or larger on an air assisted airless gun will generally provide a flow rate necessary for these materials. For Kremlin, this would equal a “12 – 114”; for Graco, a “515”; and for Binks, a “114 – 01510”.

For water-based coatings, use the tip and gun set-up recommended by the equipment manufacturer that is specifically designed for water-based materials. These guns and tips are specifically designed to spray water-based coatings without causing shear on the material. We would recommend that you start with the same tip sizes for solvent-based coating. If you are experience problems with micro-foam or bubbles in the finish, you may need to try a larger or smaller tip on a trial and error basis to insure the best result is achieved with the type of water-based coatings you are using. Not all water-based materials are created equal; therefore, an exact recommendation for these materials cannot be offered.

Conclusion
When choosing the correct tip sizes, always take into consideration the following:
Does the stain have a heavy load of pigment? If so, a larger tip may be required.
Is the stain made with only dye colorants? If so, a smaller tip may be best for this type of stain application.
The solvent package of the coating: what is the solvent blend composition and does the material have a fast or slow flash-off rate? This will influence the tip size and gun set-up.
Viscosity of the coating: a larger or smaller tip may be necessary to most efficiently apply the coating depending on the density of the material.
The speed of spray application: Always try to select the tip that delivers the correct amount of material for the speed of application while maintaining the desired finish quality.
If you choose the correct tip size for the job, your finish will look better, you will reduce rework, will experience of spray operator comfort, and will increase the efficiency of the coating application.

Golden cabinet doors; unique finishing technique by Thomas Craven

I’m going to have to make a new category for this one as it is not something I have covered before, but the process was so unique and produced such a cool effect I decided that I had to record it.

Using gold leaf or gold power in paint and clear coats has been around for some time but what Thomas Craven has done is used the gold powder in a Pinnacle polyester resin stippled on with a natural sponge and then clear coated with  the clear polyester. The effect is a multi layered effect that gives the finish a depth that is very attractive. See for your self .

featured in the video is Thomas Craven Master and owner of Thomas Craven studios in Van Nuys California you can see more of his work at his  web site at: http://www.tcwoodfinishers.com/ or contact him at: ThomasCraven@msn.com

If you are interested in the materials used you can contact me Greg Saunders at: greg@annexpaint.com

Gemini Titanium white waterbase coating do another Kitchen

Paul Maroney, of   Treasure Vista Enterprises Inc. Located in Santa Clarita California, came to the last water based finishing class we held a few months ago and decide to give the water base finishes a chance. Paul and his crew were sceptical but willing to learn and work with the water based materials.

They gave themselves the time to get familiar with the products and how they perform. Once that was done, They applied what they had learned to the next kitchen that came in.  As you can see here they have produced a phenomenal product.

Once Cured the waterbase finishes are tougher and more water resistant than the solvent materials. The products used were the Gemini Titanium white water base primer and then two top coats of the Gemini white water base satin.  This product has .09 grams per liter  VOCs and is Leeds certified.

As you can see here they did a  great job.

and here is another shot of the same kitchen

If you are interested in contacting Paul and Treasure Vista, for custom cabinets or enviromentally friendly coating here is contact information.

Treasure Vista Enterprises, Inc.

Lic. # B 644716

C  661 313-5072

W 661 254-9380

F  661 254-4715

CIC Centurion Arylic Lacquer

 

This is a realitivly undiscovered product that I’m suprized hasn’t caught on like wild fire so I thought I would do a little more promtoing of it. Orgianlly it was manufactured and sold through Renner, they discontined it as  there main line has been with the water based materials. Then CIC in texas picked it up, they improved the formual and have exported it under there label. the main advantages are:

• Its low VOC.
• Low oder.
• Sprays easily.
• As hard as a pre-Cat lacquer.
• Self sealing.
• Sands easily.
• Doesn’t Yellow.

You do not want to put it over another product i.e. recaoting old funiture that has and existing if old finish on it. The Resins are different and my  react.

Here is a video of Jody Toole using the acrylic lacquer with the Krimlin.

FYI,

The Los Angeles Church of Scientlogy in Hollywood California renovated there building last year and used this product. After a year of use it is still looking brand new.

 

CIC, Centurion Acrylic Lacquer

The Kremlin Air Assisted Airless Spray gun video demonstration

This  is a phenomenal spray gun that I have previously not paid enough attention to.  The great benefit of this tool is the increased transfer efficiency or percentage of materials which are making it to the target. With conventional airless you have about a 60% efficiency meaning that you have lost as much as 40% of your paint to the atmosphere and or your spray booth filters. With the Air-assisted airless the transfer efficiency is about 85 % so you are wasting  25% less of your paint.  This  would mean that for every 100 dollar pail of lacquer you are buying  you are saving  about 20 to 25 dollars. That is a savings that can quickly add up and pay for the rig.

In-essence it is pumping the paint out with an airless pump but it uses two opposing  streams of air to atomize the paint  much like a cup or gravity feed spray gun. With the combination of the air,  less pressure is needed to get the paint out and so more of your paint goes on the thing you are painting and less of your paint bounces off the surface and into the air.

The other benefit is that is applies the materials with less force and so give you a smoother finish, in the following video Jody Toole has been using an airless sprayer but was having some troubles with bubbling on the first coat, this was being caused by too much pressure resulting in the materials foaming when they impacted with the surface of the panel. he solved this by backing down the pressure and holding his gun further away, while that solved the bubbling it gave and even lower transfer efficiency and the material did not flow out as well. With the Kremlin all these issues were resolved.

The cost of the whole rig is about 2700 bucks and that is a little pricy but depending on how muc you spray you’ll have paid for it in savings on materials, which by the way are getting  more expensive by the day with rising gas prices.

For note: Jody is spraying the CIC low VOC acrylic lacquer which is, in essence a cab acrylic on steroids  for those of you that may have used such a thing in the past,  it is 160 gr/lt. VOC,  it is low odor and it won’t yellow.  This is the same product featured elsewhere on the blog that the Church of Scientology’s new Los Angeles and Pasadena church furniture are coated in.

 

I sell the Kremlin so if you are in my neighborhood call me and we can get together for a demo if not you can look them up on-line and find the nearest dealer. There are other companies that have air assisted air less equipment as well.

Since this article Jody has gone off and done a few more video demos and so I though I would add them to this posting  so that you could see some other demonstrations of the rig.

 

I welcome your comments.

best,

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

Thinning and retarding water based lacquers and coatings

There are a few tips to thinning and retarding water based materials that are common to most all of the water based materials on the market today, knowing these tips can make spraying out water base materials easy fun and most importantly give you the control over the flow of the materials so you  compensate for the varying conditions of your environment.

One of the things to be aware of with water based materials is that they are temperature and humidity sensitive, meaning that on a cold and rainy day it will take forever to dry if left wit out forced air and some heat.

The obvious and wonderful characteristic about water based materials is that you can thin them with water; water is cheap and not explosive.  No one has ever accidentally blown up their shop with a bucket of water.  That being said   you can overthin with water and that can create a mess.

Before we get into percentages and how much you should thin, one thing you should know is that the warmer the materials are, the thinner they will be. This is true of both water base and solvent materials.   Heating pads, bucket heaters and in line material heaters are all things that you can implement.  Inline materials heaters are pricey and not something that are too common here in Southern California  but can be used. More commonly and more practically you can just keep your buckets off the concrete floor or move the bucket in to the office of the shop overnight if it’s cold out. Warming up water base is easier and safer than warming up the solvent materials and in fact with some water base materials you can even warm  them up in the microwave machine, a little impractical but not impossible.  For every 10 degrees you heat the material you will reduce the Viscosity by 10% .  And that is a good thing to know because you can reduce your labor by putting on a thicker coat save our self the labor of having to put on another one of or two more sometimes

Now onto the more practical, the first thing that you should do is adjust your equipment to the material in other words if you have been spraying lacquer with an extra fine airless it’s probably going to be too small an orifice for the water base; you don’t want to overthin it so that you can get it out of  your gun but rather get a bigger tip. Generally a 1.7 mm tip in a cup gun and or something no smaller than a .014 in an airless and that would be the smallest I recommend 1.8 or a 2.0mm tip and needle for a cup or gravity gun.

When you do need to thin the materials down I start out with about 5% water and see how it’s coming out of the gun and laying down, with water based a good heavy coat is what you want if it looks a little blue you are doing good. You want it heavy enough to flow out but obviously not so heavy that  it is running.

Ok the next thing is getting it to flow out and lay down smoothly if it has any orange peel to it then you need some retarder. I generally add the retarder whether I need it or not as I like that fact that it flows out better, this might not be true of all water bases but the ones I have used it just seems to work better with the proper amount  of retarder.

Glycol ether is the solvent for retarding water based material you can also use that for retarding regular solvent lacquers   If you use too much your coating will never dry. The other thing to know is that you can add the retarder too fast and “shock” the material. Shocking information, but true. Dump the retarder directly in to your pot and it can cause itto foam up and have an adverse reaction. Some chemicals go together easily and some don’t;  then there are others that are right on the boarder, this in one of those. So the best way to add the retarder is to mix it 50/ 50 with water first and then add that into the water based lacquer while stirring it. Start out with one to two percent of the   50/50 water retarder solution and see if that doesn’t do the trick for you.  You can go as high as about 4%. If you are working with pigmented water base materials then you can go up to 7% .

White and pigmented lacquers require more and will have a tendency to “mud Crack” (Mud cracking is the phenomena whereas the material dries it begins to crack like mud drying out)   if you don’t use the retarder, what is happening is the solvents are drying out of the pigment faster than the pigment is drying and so you need to slow the process down so that they all dry and flow together.

Not all retarders are the same, some companies sell retarders that are a combination of different things, these work well for solvent lacquers but not always for water based materials.  You either want a lacquer retarder that is made and marked for Water based materials OR you have to test them. The way  you test your normal run of the mill retarder to see if it will work in your waterbased system is to mix it  with water. Simple, if it mixes in you’re good If it separates and doesn’t mix in or foams up and looks weird then its not going to work.  There are a few manufactures that have acetone in their retarder which doesn’t mix well with water If you add that to your water based lacquer its trash.

Ok I hope this information is clear and to the point. Use it and let me know what you get. Leave comments on the blog posting for others to see. I have specifically kept this report completely generic so that if you have a product that you are trying out for the first time it is generally best to contact the manufacture and ask them what they recommend, the better companies will spend the time to answer your questions others won’t

 Thanks,

 Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

Tips for Spraying out the CIC Centurion Conversion Varnish

I have been using the CIC conversion varnish now for over a year and have been very impressed with both the product and the manufacture. There are a few things to know about this product that I have come to learn over the course of the last year of handling the material that I wanted to pass along. One of the values of this Blog is that I can document the things I have to tell people over and over, I’m sure that I’ll continue to go into shops and explain the same thing to people but it helps that I can refer people to an article on the matter.

 The Centurion Water based conversion varnish is a water based product that can be thinned with water (imagine that!). As with any coating product you can over thin the material. There are essentially 4 things in a coating: resins, binders, solvents, and pigment (color). The resin is the paint itself; the binders are the chemicals that hold all the various parts together, the glue if you will. The solvents are the chemicals that keep the paint liquid until you apply it. Once you have applied the paint, the solvents evaporate leaving a hard coat of paint. Colorants do just that add the color, different paints require different colorants or pigments,

 So now, all these things work together, the various components of a coating have different chemical properties and different tolerances. You can only put so much pigment in a clear lacquer before you have gone too far and your final product will be chalky and flat or might not stick because there is too much of the dye powder and not enough of the binder to hold it all together. The same goes with solvents you can thin down a lacquer with lacquer thinner to a point where there is not enough binder and the chemicals no longer work together. Think of a bag of concrete add a little water and you have a drive way, too much water and you have a mud pit.

 Ok the basic theory now being covered, you thin the CIC Centurion water based conversion coating with water, no more than 20 % and that is pushing the limits. Generally you thin a coating so that it will spray or roll out well if you have to thin it further than that you are using the wrong equipment and most likely need to get a larger tip size for you spay gun. (see the article form Thomas Craven on spray techniques elsewhere in this Blog)

 Here is a picture of what can occur when you over thin the water based Conversion varnish (or any water based product for that matter)

An orange peel so bad you don’t know what you are looking at. What has happened here is that there is too much water and so the binders can hold it all together. This project had to be stripped down and re-done.

FYI, sometimes the material comes to you in the can and it is very thick and has to be thinned down.  Ok that’s is something that you would expect to have to do and here is how you do it:

1.   The first thing you have to do is have the right equipment, if you are trying to spray a water based product with a small tip size then you will be forced to over thin the material to get it out of the gun. Your regular lacquer and automotive gun is usually a 1.4mm which is too small.  I have use a 1.7 mm tip in an HVLP cup gun with success but prefer to use a 2.0 mm. The Centurion works great out of an airless or better yet the air assisted airless, don’t use the extra fine tip as you might “Sheer” the material (a term use to describe what happens when the material is subjected to too much pressure) your finish will come out grainy as if you had fine sand al through your material. 

 2. The next thing to do is make sure that you material is not cold, the warmer the material is the more fluid or less viscous it will be factually for every 10 degrees warmer your lacquer (water based or solvent ) will be 10% thinner.

That mean that if you leave a bucket on the concrete floor of your shop and overnight it cools the material down to 50 degrees, you can make it 20% thinner by warming it up to 70 degrees.  Now you can reduce your labor by warming your materials as you won’t over thin the stuff and have to put on more coats to make up for all the thinner that is going to evaporate on you. you would also be saving money on thinners as well. if you are using water based materials, water is cheap Labor however is not.  

With water based materials you can actually put them in the micro wave and warm them up this is not a practical thing. Keeping the buckets off the concrete is one step. Pulling your cans in to the office overnight is another, generally the office is climate controlled. Grainger’s sells bucket heaters that belt around a 5 gallon pail, others have wrapped a heating blanket around a pail. Warm it up, no hotter than about 90 degrees. ( if you have decided to apply this principle to a solvent base material don’t blow yourself up with a jury rigged heater)

3. Sill a little lumpy with your gun spitting material instead of laying on and even coating… thin it another 5%.

4. If it  is still lumpy and or not flowing out at this point it to add a small amount of retarder. Here is an example of that scenario this is a Centurion Conversion varnish that has been tinted Brown, with the all the Pigment the materials are not flowing out.

 

Looks pretty crappy: what solved this was adding lacquer retarder. A mixture of 50/50 water and glycol either EB: Lacquer retarder.

I use to say that you could use any ol’ lacquer retarder, that however is not the case. Lacquer retarders like Margaritas are not all made the same. The Valspar Lacquer retarder when mixed with water foams up and turn into a clear solution, there are chemicals possibly acetone in there mix that do not mix well with water, that’s not to say that it is a poor retarder for lacquer.  Some companies make water based lacquer retarders

If you get the MSDS and it say the primary ingredient is glycol either EB then you are set. A.G. Layne, Sunny side, CIC and other manufactures have retarders that are primarily Glycol EB, Any retarder when mixed 50/50 with water and goes into solution will work.  

5. You mix the lacquer retarder 50/50 with water and then add no more than 5% of that to your centurion conversion varnish. The more you add the longer its is going to take to dry. When you mix this up make sure that it has gone into solution before you add it to your material, and when you do add it stir the conversion varnish while adding it slowly. Dump it in too quickly and you can “Shock” the material. Meaning that the two materials will react against each other and separate  

 In the first picture above, the walnut the job. The containers of conversion varnish that has been over thinned were allowed to thicken up by letting some of the excess water evaporate off and then they were retarded with the above mentioned 50/50 mix of water and retarder and the job came out fine.  

If done correctly you’ll have a rock hard finish that is as smooth as a good nitrocellulose lacquer finish.     

Ok, That’s my story and I’m sticking to it of you have questions feel free to send me a line.

Greg Saunders

Annex Paint

www.annexpaint.com