Woodfinishers Weblog

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Heating your Lacquer for phenominal results (kremlin in-line lacquer heater)

I thought I had said more on this subject of heating your coatings for better results and perhaps I have, but now time has gone by and the data has been buried somewhere over the years in some article somewhere in my Blog making it not all that useful.

Let me get to the point; when you raise th temperature of your coating, be it water based or solvent you are reducing the viscosity or thickness of the materials. With in a certain range of temperature for every 10 degrees warmer you make your lacquer (be it water based solvent or urethane)  you will make your product 10% thinner. The great aspect about that is that you are not reducing the volume of solids. 

If you thin a coating  50% you’ll have to put on twice the number of coats to achieve the same build. Here in America the labor is your most expensive commodity.  Now if you can raise the temperature of the materials 50 degrees you achieve that same amount if thinning but you would do it with out adding the solvents that will evaporate out and leaving your coating behind.

But that’s not all! In addition to the above the coatings you lay out will flow out better and dry faster. And you can do it with out the expence of Lacquer thinners which are getting expensive.

There are several things you can do to use this data, the easiest is to take your pails off the concrete floor and put them up on wood blocks if nothing else. I have had contractors wrap a heating blankets around their pails and warm their lacquer up that way.  I have even seen finishers put water based lacquers in the Micro wave and warm it up.

Intelligence needs to be used, especially when dealing with flammable materials. Making your materials warmer is the key but I wouldn’t go past the point of heating materials beyond warm to the touch. you can stick your finger in and its warm to the touch Body temperature is 98 degrees so I would say no more than about 104 degrees.  Obviously if your boil your materials you are going to be changing chemical properties. Again, some intelligence please.

With duel component materials you are going to be shortening the pot life. Gradients and testing are key here. I’m a big fan of pushing something to see where their fail point is but not on a customers cabinets, when you are at that point you should have all your procedures all figured out.

Ok, the basics covered,  here are two Video demo’s of Jody Toole using the Kremlin Air-assisted airless spray rig with the new Excite spray gun and the Kremlin materials heater. Jody is a professional finisher in the Southern California area, if you are interested in contacting him you can reach him through his blog at: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

In the first clip he is using the rig and in the second he is telling some of the benefits of the whole system. 

And here is the second video Jody describing some of the attributes of the Rig and his review :

For note: the Lacquer that we are applying here is the CIC Coatings Acrylic lacquer I have said so much about int he past.

 Annex Paint sells the Kremlin air assisted airless and all of  its sundries including the heater. If you are in the southern california area and would like a Demo please feel free to contact me.

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com
www.annexpaint.com
818-439-9297

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February 17, 2012 - Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , ,

20 Comments »

  1. Two big, big plus points are the lightweight gun with the swivel connection and the
    thinner, lighter and mucho more flexible lines. They really do make a huge difference.
    Takes much of the effort out of handling the spray gun. It’s like going from a 1951 Ford
    (which I once drove!!) to a Maserati.

    -jody toole

    Comment by jody toole | February 19, 2012

  2. Hi greg, i’m Sam.

    In reading your article here I have to disagree with a few comments you’ve made which I’m sure were not intentional, but can mislead the readers as to what you actually are meaning. First is your remark on the heating of the material. when it is heated, it does not become “thinner” it becomes less viscous, there is a difference. Thinning implies a reduction of the solids in a coating by addition of a diluent, where as Heating a liquid reduces only the state of the material as to it’s flowing properties. I know what you are trying to get across, but it can easily be misunderstood by reader’s who don’t know these things.

    Secondly, If you thin a coat by “50%” it is not twice as thin as before the reduction. If i have 3 egg yolks and i add 3 more to it i have doubled the amount, if again i have 3 egg yolks and i want a 50% increase i would add 1.5 egg yolks to do so. Normally within the industry, at least up to my retirement 4 years ago, dilution ratios were expressed in numerical ratios: 1 to 1, 1-2, 1-4, etc. Again I’m sure it was for ease of explanation you did so but can confuse the reader also. If you thin a coating 1 part diluent to 1 part coating, then you have a 100% reduction in the coating giving you only half as much solids per applied coating if applied at the same mil thickness.

    Lastly, Heating will not likely affect such coatings as aqueous based or catalyzed except maybe the pre-cats. if the formulas is based on a weak acid catalyst and the reacted pot life is one of several months or more, care should be taken to insure that not only the coating but the air and substrate are within 10 degrees of each other before continual coats are applied. Otherwise you could end up with a cracking affect similar to a very mild crackle lacquer or cold checking affect, ask me how i know.

    Sincerely,

    S. Pettit Retired consultant to the wood finishing industry.

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 1, 2012

  3. Dear Sam,

    I stand Corrected, thank you so much for taking the time to spell things out. I started this blog to bring my hard won knowledge to the general public and wood finishing industry as there is so much data that is not shared and not communicated by manufactures, Chemists and other professionals that I thought I would put pen to paper. (or type to screen as it is).

    And, I’m still learning.

    I have published your comments along with my reply here.

    I have been having a ball with the whole heating of the materials thing as I’m finding that is it a lost technology here in southern California but it is an unknown tool in getting a uniformly good finish. Here is Southern California we have been hit with the most stringent restrictions in the country. Trying to get the best finish with the materials we have has not been easy. The heating of the materials have made tremendous difference for all the shops I have successfully demonstrated it to.

    Thanks again for the clarifications. If you would be interested in posting some of your experiences in the business I would be happy to publish them.

    Best,

    Greg Saunders

    Comment by Greg Saunders | April 2, 2012

  4. Hi Greg, glad i could be of help.

    I Can say, having had been working in Grand Rapids Michigan at a time when the original hot lacquer systems were still being used in the early seventies, there are differences in the formulation of true hot lacquers in it’s uses as well as differing spray techniques that were used of which even i who was a very well trained sprayer by apprenticeship, had trouble understanding the very differing but provable application methods used at that time

    Of course it was all conventional air spray at that time with modified Devilbiss guns with material circulation tubes that would allow the hot lacquer to be at the 135-40 degree temperature at all times. The solids content was from around 42-45% and thus the need for lowering the viscosity. Also the nitrocellulose formulation was one that contained much more slow evaporative diluents than a cold lacquer did. and between the two, is what gave that famous off the gun look that Baker, Widdicomb, Kendall, [where i worked] Mastercraft, and the rest became renowned for.

    Unlike i had been shown and taught, the pressurized fluid was sprayed at long distances, anywhere from a couple of feet to even farther depending on whether it was case goods or chairs etc.. When it was first applied it looked orange peeled and to me terrible, but within several minutes you could see it starting to flow out and as it dried, lay out like a sheet of glass.

    Though i did not really like the method, i could not fault the final results. And even later when i was on my own i took the time to create a cold lacquer method to duplicate the look i had come to admire so much, of course without the need to reformulate or heat the material, that had served my own finishing well all my career.

    Unfortunately, with the restrictive controls for your area, this would be of no real use. Just a brief look into how it was accomplished from an earlier time.

    Good luck with your blog site Greg And let me know if i can be of service in any way in the future ok?

    Sincerely,

    Sam / Chemmy

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 2, 2012

  5. HI Sam,

    The truly hot lacquer system is something I have only hear about, interestingly, I have a customer form whom it might have been a good system. He is doing High end furniture for a very upscale resort in Vegas and needs a full grain fill quickly. He wasn’t up for the amount of logistics it would take to get set up for that sort of operation and I wasn’t going to be able to bring in the materials easily, so we are working on other solutions.
    As for the Blog feel free to keep me in line and correct things where you see fit. And if you ever want to write an article on any particular subject in the business I would be happy to post it. In fact I would be very interested in hearing more about the hot lacquer system. The heating we are doing is only to about 104 degrees. The stuff you are talking about seems to be a lost technology.

    Once again thanks for your contributions

    Best, Greg

    Comment by Greg Saunders | April 5, 2012

  6. Hi Greg,

    I wouldn’t cal it “lost” technology as to the hot lacquers of former industry needs, just one where there is no or little call for today. first one has to keep in mind the times and available finishes, then what was needed to accomplish the work at hand to give the desired finish. for those purposes it was the most suitable finish of it’s time.

    All i can comment on further is the over-all set up and steps prior to the actual applications of the heated lacquers OK?

    Kindel, where I was employed is what i will speak of here. Though most others were using similar set ups less the first initial step of bleaching. And that’s where i will begin.

    Unlike the other companies of Grand Rapids, Kindel took a different approach to dealing with the Fluctuating color of their woods. All woods even maple were 2 part bleached so that the surfaces were as white as paper. Though other Companies did bleach some woods for lightness needed, no other that i know of did all there wood this way.Prior to that of course it was dealing with the ever fluctuating colors of both the veneers and solids.

    The first booth on the track line [that which is reminiscent of raised railroad track only with thinner rails] was the bleaching booth, a set up of again Devilbiss equipment was used all stainless steel and specail hoses for the A/B bleach. 1, 5 gal. container [pressure pot for each component with lines tied to one gun with the third hose for air.] The bleach was applied wet but not running and left to dry in a off side portion of the track till it was ready for the next operation.

    The second area and booth was where it was first cold lacquer sealed [for quick drying] and then paste-wood filled with a thin filler that only filled about half of the pore, [reasons for this later]. It was then sealed again and off set to dry and when ready sanded smooth and sent to me [or whomever] at the main hot lacquer booth.

    It was here where learning the technique of spraying was most critical. Though if one had spray experience it took little time to get accustomed to. After the hot lacquer coat what you had was a white wood with the grain accentuate by the dark filler and a smooth surface ready for the next and most important features of the finish, the application of the dye toner/shader/distress/etc..

    The man most responsible for this had been with the company for 25 years and had his techniques down to an exacting science, so much so that he had been hired away form Kendell 3 times and they always wooed him back – not something oft seen there.

    By the time he had performed his operations and returned to me, it was the most elegant looking mahogany i had ever seen done in such a way as this at the time and why the Kentwood finish was there most valuable and best finish offered. After my second coat of hot lacquer it was set aside to dry and the following day or so given off to be hand rubbed to get the final sheen required. The finished look was one of a flat semi filled pore that was filled enough to not look starved for finish build but open enough so that there was no doubt of it being wood and not some imitation look that at that time was being offered. This was why most all there in Grand Rapids adopted the hot lacquer and why it became such a popular look both with the designers as well as architects and others.

    Though to me Baker and Karges of which was in Indiana, still led the over all field as to designs and best looking natural veneers and solids, Mastercraft/Widdicomb/Kindel, and a few others still were just as good.

    As to the over-all actual set up of the material handling of the lacquer, it was first pumped from the drums in the holding room to the actual designated booths where an auxiliary heater was installed to heat it back up to the desired temperature and then circulated through the guns. The drums themselves were strapped with explosion proof heating belts that would keep them at the necessary settings. The piping was also wrapped and heated keeping the loss of heat to the bare minimum, this was necessary because of the distances from pump room to booth locations, needless to say in a small system this would not have been as necessary.

    This pretty much somes up the entire process at least as far as the Kentwood finish, Next time – tackling the chemistry of the hot lacquer finish.

    Chemmy / SAM

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 5, 2012

  7. Sorry Greg, i did not address your issue of using hot lacquer for your client. Even had the logistics been acceptable and the type of H lacquer i used back then still readily available, I would have not recommended it in today’s climate of better and improved coatings. I would not offer a client today any less than a Two component urethane based on an acrylic polyol and an HDMI isocyanate as the final coatings, the base coatings could be of the vinyl types if color or other needed steps were being done, and in strong light i would also recommend a triple play of HALS and UVA’s both in the wood and coatings for lasting color retention and coating stability. Of course these recommendations are based on being able to use such products without restrictions.

    This system also can be used when an open grain or semi open grain look is required for the look i talk of getting with my own cold lacquer formulas or the H laqcuers. It is all am matter viscosity and flow and application parameters.

    The only thing the 2K system lacks is of course the ease of repair the cellulose nitrate system Had.

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 6, 2012

  8. Hot lacquer chemistry:

    The main difference in the old hot lacquers were that a higher or more viscous resin was used. The common 1/2 second RS nitrocellulose which was the common cold lacquer viscosity type used, was not used for the hot lacquer types at least at guardsman who supplied ours at Kendal. and the rest of grand rapids. ours was the 1 second higher viscosity type and made it more than twice the viscosity of the common cold types.

    Beyond this the solvents themselves were the mid boiling and high boiling types with a greater emphasis on those that would allow the best flow out characteristics and leveling, Less toluene and xylol and more esters and acetates in this case. The alcohols also were reduced but not eliminated all together. The alkyds was also increased proportionately to continue to give the best performance characteristics such as best adhesion, gloss, body, and water and alcohol resistance also.

    hope this helps,

    Sam /chemmy

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 9, 2012

  9. Hi Sam,
    My apologies for not responding sooner, I would agree with you on the urethane’s, They are hard to repair but that being said they are hard to damage as well, and that is the point. Generally I sell these things for commercial application. restaurants Bars and that sort of thing. For the residential market I have a maybe one finisher who’ll put a urethane in a residential setting, It is as well a serious up charge.

    You mentioned a few terms that I’m not familiar with HAL’s and UVA’s. I’m assuming the UVAs are the ultra violet protection however I have no clue on the HALs. The Polyurethane’s I carry all are exterior rated with UV inhibitors. The solvent Poly I carry has done well on south and west facing doors on the California coast.

    I’m also not familiar with “HDMI” isocynates I didn’t know the different Isocyanates. but know the poly’s that are not catalyzed with an Iso are not worth calling a polyurethane and in fact really aren’t but in fact a marketing ploy to sell something. I have had to explain the difference in between my costly Polyurethanes and the stuff called Polyurethanes at Home Depot.

    Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

    Best,
    Greg Saunders
    Annex Paint

    u

    Comment by Greg Saunders | April 24, 2012

  10. Thanks,

    that is a big help, and very interesting I have a few fiends on the east coast that are finishing consultants I’m curious to see who is using that Technology. This all came up when my customer was looking to achieve a full grain fill inexpensively with out having to apply 10 coats of a sealer that has at most 20% Volume solids. the first thing that I recommended was a polyester,but that took too long to dry, then I recommended a water based clear grain filling past but we had issues with that under the nitro lacquer ( it would shrink and unfill the grain). When I mention this problem to my equipment guy he told me about hot lacquer. And clarified the difference in between heating up a coating and “Hot” lacquer.

    The industry if coatings in amazing, The more I look the more I find …

    Thanks for your input.

    Best

    Greg Saunders
    Annex Paint
    a

    Comment by Greg Saunders | April 24, 2012

  11. Sorry Greg, i took it for granted being in the business that you would know the term, sorry, i apologize.

    HALS, [H.indered A.mine L.ight S.tabilizers] UVA’s [ultraviolet absorbers] and HDMI’s is wrong, sorry i should have typed “HDI” – [Hexamethaline Diisocyante, the other most used are TDI- toluene Di isocyante, and MDI’s – HDI’s are the least toxic of the three, TDI’s the most toxic and rarely used in coatings here, Imron was one exception, but i’m not sure if they still use it now or not, lol.

    Here’s a link to help you understand the HALS ok

    http://www.specialchem4polymers.com/tc/uv-stabilizers/index.aspx?id=mechanism

    SpecialChem is a good site to keep up with emerging coatings and additives, not the best, but at least there are no dues to pay,lol.

    Hals and UVA’s should be used as a 1-2-3- punch for the best results. A hals lignin stabilizer is put on the wood directly to inhibit delignification of the wood itself, and results in keeping the wood looking new as to color and appearance. UVA’s and HAL’s in the coating serve the same purpose in the sense the HALS keep the coating viable as to longer term properties and the uv’s keep the oxidation of the coating from happening more quickly than without ok? trying to keep the chem-speak to a minimum ok? you have others as you say that can fill you in on the details.

    Hals have been out long enough now to know they are exceeding good and useful, many companies are now using them in a dual or tri fold way.

    As to home depot poly’s normally called oil modified urethane’s, i think there fine for the home users, less toxic also. although they are not really oil modified, but the alkyd resins made from the oils are combined with the isocyanate [formal chemical bond] to produce the end product, to many times i have had to correct there use in home brews where people recommend things like a 1,1,1, mix of these poly’s with equal parts boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. Ending up with a film that is neither good or chemically bound together, just a mix/solution/of ingredients that don’t form a single polymerizing film.Much better to put the oil on and let it dry and put the poly over it.

    On the pore filler situation, you might try using 3-4 lb cut shellac with silica or mountain crystals to a semi-paste consistency using n-propanol or n- butanol as a retarder and apply with a squeegee across the grain, remove all the excess and sand smooth when dry, old trick but still viable. Modern way? Use a quick dry AC acrylic casting resin with the same method of application and removal, add just a little more catalyst to the mix [a few drops] to speed up drying, sand and continue building as needed. Contact Reichold for resins that will fit the bill!!

    Always test for varying application procedures, before going into production with anything i mention ok?

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 24, 2012

  12. Thought best to warn you since i don’t know how familiar you are with shellac, you need to use waxless shellac Zinnser “sealcoat” for above uses, anything else would cause intercoat adhesion probelms, especially poly, nitro lacquer and solvent acrylic’s excluded ok?

    Comment by sheldon [sam] pettit | April 24, 2012

  13. Hmmm? i posted 2 reponses to your questions and comments on HALS and fillers, they have dissapeared? any problems Greg?

    Comment by CHEMMY | April 24, 2012

  14. I’m not retired and so this blog is something I do for the community after hours. There are days when I’m out in the field until 8pm in the evening in those times my blog suffers, sorry for the inconvenience GReg

    Comment by Greg Saunders | April 25, 2012

  15. Thanks for your indepth reply this is one I’ll study in detail over the weekend when I have a little more time. Best, Greg

    Comment by Greg Saunders | April 25, 2012

  16. Hi Sam,

    Now that was educational, I was out of commission for a week with stitches in the hand for a week but have had the chance now to study you commentary, the link was very helpful and has armed me with some nomenclature with which to talk to the manufacturing chemists about.

    You had mention Imron which is one of the more popular coatings I have been selling, however I sell the Imron Industrial strength which is and entirely re-mixed formula to meet the 100 VOCs regulation we have here in Southern California. Todate the Imron has done surprisingly well with color and gloss retention. In the wood coating arena I have a polyurethane that is produced by a local company, Ellis, that I have also had a lot of success with, I would suspect that the the Ellis 149CL has the HDI’s as it has done extremely well in the harsh conditions of the coastal areas, I have more than one finisher who uses this product exclusively on high-end custom exterior entry doors.

    On the Home brews, a mix of a poly, Linseed oil and mineral spirits. WOW that’s a home brew from hell, not that I haven’t similar things. that one is mixing two entirely different chemistry’s which can’t be good.

    While the shellac is a great barrier coat and I use to sell a bunch of it for just that purpose I have pretty much replace that need with vinyl and pre catalyzed sealers, they work great are hard and don’t have the tendency to yellow as the shellacs do.

    CIC has now come up with a water based clear grain filler that is out of this world. It sounds like it has the same consistency as the mix you had mentioned. it is a thick spreadable paste that you apply with a spreader, it dries in 10 minutes and then you sand it down to the grain and fill again as needed, the only problem a customer had with it was top coating it directly with a nitro lacquer which re-wet the product and it shrank further in to the open grain, I suspect that he over applied it and didn’t bother sanding between coats. I’m thinning that your mix might be a fix for that one. I’m guessing that the silica used in flattening pastes is the same product as you are referring to?

    Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Would you be interested in doing a column on the blog? I have a section called from the chemist that has never gon any where as I couldn’t get a chemist to put their words to print for me. I have the idea that as a generation of wood finishers leave the arena I some of their “old” technology is being lost. It has always been my desire to find the fundamental principle that make something work with those firmly grasped the newer advances are easily assimilate-able.

    Best,
    Greg Saunders

    Comment by Greg Saunders | May 4, 2012

  17. thanks, the Zinnser’s is the only shellac I have use. That product is exactly and specifically for that purpose of providing a barrier coat.

    Comment by Greg Saunders | May 4, 2012

  18. HI Sam,

    You are prolific, and should do a page in my blog if you are interested we’ll call it what ever you want to call it. while you say that it’s not lost technology I wonder. I have seen a facility in Greensboro North Carolina that was as large as you have described. The hot lacquer system is very interesting I would guess that the volume solids on that product were around 60% and that is what enabled you you get that finish with just two applications. DO you recall the manufacture of the materials?

    Using the in-line materials heater only warms the materials to a lukewarm 104 degrees tops, It does change the flow characteristic dramatically and that what has impressed me so much. Here in Southern California it has only been in the last 8 years that we have had to deal with the 275 VOC restrictions. In that time we have learned how to make the coatings work, but in the time no one ever suggested the use of a heater and that is something that which finishers should know about. Back in the day you could hose out the 680 VOC stuff in the rain snow and dead of the summer heat and it would lay out and look great. Those days are gone for us. The Kremlin and the heater however make it so much easier.

    Best,

    Greg

    Comment by Greg Saunders | May 4, 2012

  19. Hi Greg, i had no idea imron had been re-formultated, good to know, it it still a linerar poly? is the isocyanate still an MDI or TDI type? Or is it just a matter of changing out solvents mainly?

    GREG:

    “I would suspect that the the Ellis 149CL has the HDI’s as it has done extremely well in the harsh conditions of the coastal areas, I have more than one finisher who uses this product exclusively on high-end custom exterior entry doors.”

    Chemmy:

    Well that’s good to hear, but it sounds like they may be using it just in their coatings, for best over all protection and life of the whole coating system, they should develope a wipe or brush on Hals Lignin stabilizer to first protect the wood itself form lignin degredation [ greying, darkning, yellowing, etc.] with that in place, their system will out-perform a coating in and of itself ok? 6 months or more in a atlas fadometer should prove that to them easily

    GREG:.

    “” I have pretty much replace that need with vinyl and pre catalyzed sealers, they work great are hard and don’t have the tendency to yellow as the shellacs do.””

    Chemmy:

    Won’t argue on the points of vinyl cats, pre-cat sealers though, keep in mind two things, if they are cellulose nitrate based with the normal alkyd amino [AA] co polymer, that to, as the top-coats also, will amber/yellow over time. That in turn can be just as bad or worse then a platinum or blonde shellac ok? If by chance they are an acrylic AA blend, then disreguard. Also, many people don’t like vinyl even when catalyzed, because it’s still more difficult to sand than a normal sanding sealer based on nitro, [old school] but there are other sanding aids that can help this alot instead of the metal soaps used before, such as some of the newer amides on the market. i would rather see more use of the vinyls than self sealing systems being used by themselves. vinyl’s properties are over all better as a foundation coat then nitro/aa is.

    Greg:

    “CIC has now come up with a water based clear grain filler that is out of this world. It sounds like it has the same consistency as the mix you had mentioned. it is a thick spreadable paste that you apply with a spreader, it dries in 10 minutes and then you sand it down to the grain and fill again as needed, the only problem a customer had with it was top coating it directly with a nitro lacquer which re-wet the product and it shrank further in to the open grain, I suspect that he over applied it and didn’t bother sanding between coats. I’m thinning that your mix might be a fix for that one. I’m guessing that the silica used in flattening pastes is the same product as you are referring to? ”

    Chemmy:

    Actually i did not go into as much detail on what i proposed Greg, When interest was shown by customers in using such, it was expalined to them thusly:

    the mix is really a combination of shellac/fine wood dust from whatever woods they are using it on/ silex [a type of flint that fills the pores better than silicon does, and as stated, some n- butanol or prefferably n- ptopanol to promote more open time for application and removal. Here is how it works, the shellac of course is the binder, the wood dust provides a harmonious color to the the pores and provides a means of further coloring with dyes if necessary to a degree, which the silex or silicone or mountain crystals will not really permit to any worthwhile degree, thus insuring that some point in the future the pores wont turn white as with other fillers.The shellac again has better hold out than an acrylic would as it does not remelt near as much as a acrylic or nitro would, so it will not sink like nitro based or acrylics would either, old school, but still better in my use and opinion.

    GREG:


    Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Would you be interested in doing a column on the blog? I have a section called from the chemist that has never gon any where as I couldn’t get a chemist to put their words to print for me. I have the idea that as a generation of wood finishers leave the arena I some of their “old” technology is being lost. It has always been my desire to find the fundamental principle that make something work with those firmly grasped the newer advances are easily assimilate-able.”

    Chemmy:

    I would consider it Greg, but as i stated earlier, you would first have to update the site to afford others the ability to post photos as well as leave comments and questions as here, for me to want to do so ok?

    By the way, Chemmy is my usual forum name i use almost everywhere instead of my real name lol.

    If you ever check out woodweb/woodworking talk / or sawmill creek finishing columns and run across any post with chemmy as the responder, that would be me 🙂

    Sincerely,

    Chemmy / SAM 🙂

    Comment by CHEMMY | May 4, 2012

  20. Hi Sam, Thanks for all your input I’m going to Email you seperatly as we are now heading out of the area of heating your lacquers heading we started this with. best Greg

    Comment by Greg Saunders | May 9, 2012


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