Woodfinishers Weblog

Wood finishing forum for professional finishers

CIC solvent conversion varnish v.s. CIC waterborn conversion coating

This is a great video from Eric Reason, Whose permission I have to repost this video comparison of  the CIC waterbase conversion product and  its solvent based alternative.  This is know as destructive testing, the video does a phenomenal job of showing the testing he does to determine which has a greater resistance to solvents. The only thing that I would want to know is how long these board cured before the testing. I love the destructive Rub testing as it shows at what point will  a coating fail.

Something to be mentioned here is that a regular lacquer finish would have been stripped clean down to the bare wood in the 10 rubs of a lacquer thinner or acetone.  by comparison to that these finishes are pretty tough. That being said don’t leave your Kids and a gallon of lacquer thinner alone in your newly finished Kitchen 🙂

You can check out Eric other work at his web site: https://www.ercustomwoodwork.com/
Thanks

Greg

October 15, 2018 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , | Leave a comment

Back painting glass using the CIC Mustang adhesion promoter

Adhesion promoters are a very useful tool to have in your belt as a finisher, as you will see in this very informative video by master finisher and good friend Thomas Craven, of Thomas Craven studios in Van Nuys California.

Back painting glass is what we are doing here, the other uses for this product are where you have to paint  rubber or plastic, this product was originally designed for painting plastic bumpers  and parts for the automotive industry ( Rubber bumpers on cars, 30 years ago that was a joke). Another use is painting over plastic laminates. I had a customer that bought some very expensive custom cabinet doors from Italy, they were a laminate that had a custom wave C-N-Ced in to the door, the customer made a mistake and got the wrong color,  we used the adhesion promoter on these and fixed the color.

Tom is using the CIC mustang adhesion promoter to back paint glass that is going to be used as a black splash, this is a cool little technique and is very popular. It has high tech ultra modern look and is easy to do, getting the paint to stick to the Glass is the tricky part.

An adhesion promoter is in essence a spray on glue that bonds to the glass and then bonds to your paint and thereby promoting adhesion, Simple Right?    yes and no.

There are a few key application points that Tom goes over in the video that are very Key, two light  (underline) coats. this is not a coating in itself you just want enough to get so stick.

NEXT POINT, you apply  your paint while the adhesion promoter is still tackie. don’t let it dry and then paint over it you have defeated the purpose.

The CIC mustang is a great product as it sprays out very light and doesn’t clump or clog, when looking at the glass you wouldn’t know that there was anything other than the color coat, and guess what you can get that product and other fine CIC products on my web site at http://www.annexpaint.com. if  you have questions you are welcome to write to me at info@annexpaint.com.

and here’s the video:

 

best,

Greg Saunders

 

February 2, 2015 Posted by | Conversion varnish, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , | Leave a comment

Painting speaker cabinets Flat Black with pinnacle polyprimer and CIC conversion varnish

Thomas Craven of Thomas Craven studios, ( http://www.tcwoodfinishers.com/index.html) has done a phenomenal short video series on refinishing a pair of Vandersteen speakers.

He has 6 short videos in all which are very concise and to the point, clearly covering the points of proper prep and application for doing a professional paint Job.

After proper preparation they applied 4 coats of pinnacle polyprimer from Ellis paint. applied in two applications, sanding in-between coats. This gave him and exceptionally hard finish that was very smooth,

Probably one of the most common mistakes of beginning finishers and professionals alike is applying too much paint too quickly, for the sake of speed they whammer on two heavy coats and walk away only to have it bubble or crack on them later. When the first coat doesn’t have a chance to dry properly and then is covered over by successive coats the later layers will dry quicker and harden, then when the earliest layer finally dries a week or two later it will shrink, the later coats already dry and unable to contract will be pulled together and will crack.

The best practice is sneak up on a high build by successive light to medium coats

The videos are all linked together, there are two introductory videos which go over the project and the prep following that you have two more short videos of the spray applications

After that they applied the polyprimer they applied a flat Clear Conversion Varnish. Conversion varnish is a catalyzed coating which is very hard and durable. CIC coatings is the brand of Conversion varnish being used, I’m very fond of this this particular product as it has been specially formulated to be applied right out of the can with out thinning or retarding, it lays out incredibly smooth and dries quickly.

These products can be obtained through my store Annex Paint in Reseda California If you have any questions about these products feel free to contact me.

Greg Saunders 818-439-9297

If you are interested in having a specialty coating on your furniture contact Thomas Craven at the above web site.

June 14, 2014 Posted by | Conversion varnish, Tips and Tricks, Uncategorized, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | Leave a comment

CIC Coatings Water based Conversion Varnish test

I apologize for having been remiss in my blogging duties it has been a busy year. I have a new camera and as well some new things to share.

I went back to a job that a customer did a year ago to see how the CIC acrylic coatings were holding up. In general the CIC 3022 Acrylic lacquer was doing great, on verticals and in bookshelves it looked great. however on counter tops after a year of being in side of a well attended church there were some signs of wear. Jody Toole of Jody Tool’s finishing started to do some tests to see what he could apply that would be harder yet easy to apply and yet not change the color or appearance.

the following video is the test that he did. for reference in the test he used the CIC acrylic lacquer, a 550 VOC pre-cat from mohawk and the CIC coatings water based clear Conversion Varnish. all of the panels were sealed with a vinyl sealer first. He them wiped them down with an lacquer thinner on a rag to see how fast the coating would degrade.

Additional note: although it is not shown here Jody did a separate test where he applied the water based conversion varnish directly over the acrylic lacquer and it looked great and stuck well.

If you are interested in knowing more about these products give me a call.

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint
http://www.annexpaint.com
818-349-9297

December 6, 2012 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Finishing failures and the fix, speciality finishes, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | Leave a comment

Water based grain Filler from CIC demo

For years I have been asking for a clear grain filler and for the years I have been looking the only true Clear grain filler I found was an Ultra Violet cured product, while a great product it was out of realm of the regular cabinet guy. Then CIC came up with this product that is all the things I was looking for. It is water based and dries quickly, ( all water based products are temperature and humidity sensitive) This is a product that I have wanted to get a demo video up on for some time.
My wife wanted a simple black box that she was going to put in a closet, it wasn’t going to be seen that much and so didn’t have to be fancy, I had some salvaged oak ply in the shed and so decided to make it out of that. then I had the idea to use the water based grain filler on it to spruce it up and have something for the blog, Long story short I spent way more time doing the finishing on something that is going into the Closet than I should have. that being said I home video is of some value to any one interested in the product.

About the Product:
It is water based and comes in a can it is thick and has the consistency of seriously thick ketchup or bril-cream hair gel (that dates me). You apply it with a spreader or wide putty knife. you don’t want a build you want to spread it around and fill grain any extra you have on the surface, you’ll have to sand off and it gets hard. Lay it on, let it dry and sand all the excess off. This is not a top coat it is not a coating it is a filler so you have to sand down to the wood, depending on the dept of the grain yo may have to do the process again and sand again. once you have filled the grain you can apply your sealer and top coat. SO far I have only used this with water based top coats I have not tried it under a solvent lacquer. should work fine I just haven’t tried that one. the one thing that I would say about that would be that you would want to be very dry first other wise any water/moisture off gassing is going to blush your clear coat.

The other question is at what point do you stain, That the tricky part IF you stain first and you are then sanding down to the wood you are inevitably going to be sanding into your stain. IF you sand afterword you stain in not going to penetrate well. The Trick is when you have filled the grain then sand down deep enough so that you are sanding wood. In other words, if the wood was the land and mountains and the valleys and gorges were the depth of the grain then you would want to sand down to the point that you were cutting the tops of the mountains off. And then apply your stain. If you haven’t sanded that down evenly then your stain coating is going to be uneven.

following this I’ll have a few other video demos of spraying the Black CIC water based Conversion coating on where you see the difference that the grain fill makes.

Ok and here is the video of the application:

August 4, 2012 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Tips and Tricks, Uncategorized, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , | 1 Comment

Heating your Lacquer for phenominal results (kremlin in-line lacquer heater)

I thought I had said more on this subject of heating your coatings for better results and perhaps I have, but now time has gone by and the data has been buried somewhere over the years in some article somewhere in my Blog making it not all that useful.

Let me get to the point; when you raise th temperature of your coating, be it water based or solvent you are reducing the viscosity or thickness of the materials. With in a certain range of temperature for every 10 degrees warmer you make your lacquer (be it water based solvent or urethane)  you will make your product 10% thinner. The great aspect about that is that you are not reducing the volume of solids. 

If you thin a coating  50% you’ll have to put on twice the number of coats to achieve the same build. Here in America the labor is your most expensive commodity.  Now if you can raise the temperature of the materials 50 degrees you achieve that same amount if thinning but you would do it with out adding the solvents that will evaporate out and leaving your coating behind.

But that’s not all! In addition to the above the coatings you lay out will flow out better and dry faster. And you can do it with out the expence of Lacquer thinners which are getting expensive.

There are several things you can do to use this data, the easiest is to take your pails off the concrete floor and put them up on wood blocks if nothing else. I have had contractors wrap a heating blankets around their pails and warm their lacquer up that way.  I have even seen finishers put water based lacquers in the Micro wave and warm it up.

Intelligence needs to be used, especially when dealing with flammable materials. Making your materials warmer is the key but I wouldn’t go past the point of heating materials beyond warm to the touch. you can stick your finger in and its warm to the touch Body temperature is 98 degrees so I would say no more than about 104 degrees.  Obviously if your boil your materials you are going to be changing chemical properties. Again, some intelligence please.

With duel component materials you are going to be shortening the pot life. Gradients and testing are key here. I’m a big fan of pushing something to see where their fail point is but not on a customers cabinets, when you are at that point you should have all your procedures all figured out.

Ok, the basics covered,  here are two Video demo’s of Jody Toole using the Kremlin Air-assisted airless spray rig with the new Excite spray gun and the Kremlin materials heater. Jody is a professional finisher in the Southern California area, if you are interested in contacting him you can reach him through his blog at: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

In the first clip he is using the rig and in the second he is telling some of the benefits of the whole system. 

And here is the second video Jody describing some of the attributes of the Rig and his review :

For note: the Lacquer that we are applying here is the CIC Coatings Acrylic lacquer I have said so much about int he past.

 Annex Paint sells the Kremlin air assisted airless and all of  its sundries including the heater. If you are in the southern california area and would like a Demo please feel free to contact me.

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com
www.annexpaint.com
818-439-9297

February 17, 2012 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | 20 Comments

CI Centurion Acrylic lacquer in action

I have been reporting on the acrylic lacquer for the last few years yet few of the die-hard finishers have taken up the new technology, for better or worse in our industry getting up and running with a new product, water-based materials or other wise is a trying activity experimenting with you customers kitchens is a risky business and with economic conditions as they are these aren’t the times to venture away from the norm, or are they?

Having a technologically superior product that is easy to apply could be the thing that would put you ahead of the crowd could be the ticket to your survival in this cut throat market.

The Church of Scientology has been on a project to up grade and renovate their various facilities around the country. After extensive testing they decided on using the Centurion acrylic Lacquer from CIC  Coatings they needed something that was commercial grade tough and as well crystal clear which wouldn’t yellow. As well they wanted a product that was as environmentally friendly. The CIC Acrylic lacquer met all these qualities It doesn’t yellow as it is not nitro-cellulous, it’s as hard as a pre-Catalysed lacquer yet it has the moisture resistance of a urethane, it is low VOC and has a relatively low odor.

The Finishing contractor, Jody Toole, of Jody tools Finishing (http://www.jodytoole.com/) has been applying the product with an Kremlin Air assisted Airless spray rig has been over joyed at the results he has been getting.

the following are a few pictures of  one of the recent  Church of Scientology churches which have been renovated using the CIC Acrylic lacquer.

Non yellowing CIC acrylic lacquer

CIC Lacquer on all the furniture

November 8, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Uncategorized, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | Leave a comment

CIC “TL” acrylic lacquer passes the water boarding test,

I have a customer who loves the CIC TL acrylic lacquer, while I was in his shop the other day he showed me the results of a scientific study he was performing with the product, I was so impressed I videoed the test.

The Finisher is Jody Toole and he operates in the LA area doing custom wood finishing if you are interested in contacting him here is a link to his blog: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

The Centurion Acrylic lacquer is a low VOC acrylic lacquer. Acrylics are different than nitrocellulose lacquers, a little more expensive but far superior, they are harder and don’t yellow, as well it is self sealing and they don’t smell as bad when you are spraying them out. This particular product is and advanced Hybrid of what was referred to as a “Cab Acrylic”, the old cab acrylic were very clear didn’t yellow but were relatively soft. the TL series is very hard.

As you’ll see in the short video Jody had his Starbucks cold drink plastic cups on a walnut panel he has finished 6 months ago. He has placed his cups on the panel every day for the last 6 months, as you can see there is not water damage, I love it when I get impressed with my own products. If you are interested in purchasing this product please feel free to contact me Greg Saunders Annex paint at: greg@annexpaint.com


 

thanks if you have any questions please feel free to contact me

Greg
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com

September 28, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Tips and Tricks, Wood finishing | , , , , , | Leave a comment

CIC Centurion Arylic Lacquer

 

This is a realitivly undiscovered product that I’m suprized hasn’t caught on like wild fire so I thought I would do a little more promtoing of it. Orgianlly it was manufactured and sold through Renner, they discontined it as  there main line has been with the water based materials. Then CIC in texas picked it up, they improved the formual and have exported it under there label. the main advantages are:

  • Its low VOC.
  • Low oder.
  • Sprays easily.
  • As hard as a pre-Cat lacquer.
  • Self sealing.
  • Sands easily.
  • Doesn’t Yellow.

You do not want to put it over another product i.e. recaoting old funiture that has and existing if old finish on it. The Resins are different and my  react.

Here is a video of Jody Toole using the acrylic lacquer with the Krimlin.


FYI,

The Los Angeles Church of Scientlogy in Hollywood California renovated there building last year and used this product. After a year of use it is still looking brand new.

 

CIC, Centurion Acrylic Lacquer

April 21, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Wood finishing | Leave a comment

The Kremlin Air Assisted Airless Spray gun video demonstration

This  is a phenomenal spray gun that I have previously not paid enough attention to.  The great benefit of this tool is the increased transfer efficiency or percentage of materials which are making it to the target. With conventional airless you have about a 60% efficiency meaning that you have lost as much as 40% of your paint to the atmosphere and or your spray booth filters. With the Air-assisted airless the transfer efficiency is about 85 % so you are wasting  25% less of your paint.  This  would mean that for every 100 dollar pail of lacquer you are buying  you are saving  about 20 to 25 dollars. That is a savings that can quickly add up and pay for the rig.

In-essence it is pumping the paint out with an airless pump but it uses two opposing  streams of air to atomize the paint  much like a cup or gravity feed spray gun. With the combination of the air,  less pressure is needed to get the paint out and so more of your paint goes on the thing you are painting and less of your paint bounces off the surface and into the air.

The other benefit is that is applies the materials with less force and so give you a smoother finish, in the following video Jody Toole has been using an airless sprayer but was having some troubles with bubbling on the first coat, this was being caused by too much pressure resulting in the materials foaming when they impacted with the surface of the panel. he solved this by backing down the pressure and holding his gun further away, while that solved the bubbling it gave and even lower transfer efficiency and the material did not flow out as well. With the Kremlin all these issues were resolved.

The cost of the whole rig is about 2700 bucks and that is a little pricy but depending on how muc you spray you’ll have paid for it in savings on materials, which by the way are getting  more expensive by the day with rising gas prices.

For note: Jody is spraying the CIC low VOC acrylic lacquer which is, in essence a cab acrylic on steroids  for those of you that may have used such a thing in the past,  it is 160 gr/lt. VOC,  it is low odor and it won’t yellow.  This is the same product featured elsewhere on the blog that the Church of Scientology’s new Los Angeles and Pasadena church furniture are coated in.

 

I sell the Kremlin so if you are in my neighborhood call me and we can get together for a demo if not you can look them up on-line and find the nearest dealer. There are other companies that have air assisted air less equipment as well.

Since this article Jody has gone off and done a few more video demos and so I though I would add them to this posting  so that you could see some other demonstrations of the rig.


 

I welcome your comments.

best,

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

April 12, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , | 12 Comments