Woodfinishers Weblog

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CIC Coatings Water based Conversion Varnish test

I apologize for having been remiss in my blogging duties it has been a busy year. I have a new camera and as well some new things to share.

I went back to a job that a customer did a year ago to see how the CIC acrylic coatings were holding up. In general the CIC 3022 Acrylic lacquer was doing great, on verticals and in bookshelves it looked great. however on counter tops after a year of being in side of a well attended church there were some signs of wear. Jody Toole of Jody Tool’s finishing started to do some tests to see what he could apply that would be harder yet easy to apply and yet not change the color or appearance.

the following video is the test that he did. for reference in the test he used the CIC acrylic lacquer, a 550 VOC pre-cat from mohawk and the CIC coatings water based clear Conversion Varnish. all of the panels were sealed with a vinyl sealer first. He them wiped them down with an lacquer thinner on a rag to see how fast the coating would degrade.

Additional note: although it is not shown here Jody did a separate test where he applied the water based conversion varnish directly over the acrylic lacquer and it looked great and stuck well.

If you are interested in knowing more about these products give me a call.

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint
http://www.annexpaint.com
818-349-9297

December 6, 2012 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Finishing failures and the fix, speciality finishes, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | Leave a comment

Heating your Lacquer for phenominal results (kremlin in-line lacquer heater)

I thought I had said more on this subject of heating your coatings for better results and perhaps I have, but now time has gone by and the data has been buried somewhere over the years in some article somewhere in my Blog making it not all that useful.

Let me get to the point; when you raise th temperature of your coating, be it water based or solvent you are reducing the viscosity or thickness of the materials. With in a certain range of temperature for every 10 degrees warmer you make your lacquer (be it water based solvent or urethane)  you will make your product 10% thinner. The great aspect about that is that you are not reducing the volume of solids. 

If you thin a coating  50% you’ll have to put on twice the number of coats to achieve the same build. Here in America the labor is your most expensive commodity.  Now if you can raise the temperature of the materials 50 degrees you achieve that same amount if thinning but you would do it with out adding the solvents that will evaporate out and leaving your coating behind.

But that’s not all! In addition to the above the coatings you lay out will flow out better and dry faster. And you can do it with out the expence of Lacquer thinners which are getting expensive.

There are several things you can do to use this data, the easiest is to take your pails off the concrete floor and put them up on wood blocks if nothing else. I have had contractors wrap a heating blankets around their pails and warm their lacquer up that way.  I have even seen finishers put water based lacquers in the Micro wave and warm it up.

Intelligence needs to be used, especially when dealing with flammable materials. Making your materials warmer is the key but I wouldn’t go past the point of heating materials beyond warm to the touch. you can stick your finger in and its warm to the touch Body temperature is 98 degrees so I would say no more than about 104 degrees.  Obviously if your boil your materials you are going to be changing chemical properties. Again, some intelligence please.

With duel component materials you are going to be shortening the pot life. Gradients and testing are key here. I’m a big fan of pushing something to see where their fail point is but not on a customers cabinets, when you are at that point you should have all your procedures all figured out.

Ok, the basics covered,  here are two Video demo’s of Jody Toole using the Kremlin Air-assisted airless spray rig with the new Excite spray gun and the Kremlin materials heater. Jody is a professional finisher in the Southern California area, if you are interested in contacting him you can reach him through his blog at: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

In the first clip he is using the rig and in the second he is telling some of the benefits of the whole system. 

And here is the second video Jody describing some of the attributes of the Rig and his review :

For note: the Lacquer that we are applying here is the CIC Coatings Acrylic lacquer I have said so much about int he past.

 Annex Paint sells the Kremlin air assisted airless and all of  its sundries including the heater. If you are in the southern california area and would like a Demo please feel free to contact me.

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com
www.annexpaint.com
818-439-9297

February 17, 2012 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | 20 Comments

CI Centurion Acrylic lacquer in action

I have been reporting on the acrylic lacquer for the last few years yet few of the die-hard finishers have taken up the new technology, for better or worse in our industry getting up and running with a new product, water-based materials or other wise is a trying activity experimenting with you customers kitchens is a risky business and with economic conditions as they are these aren’t the times to venture away from the norm, or are they?

Having a technologically superior product that is easy to apply could be the thing that would put you ahead of the crowd could be the ticket to your survival in this cut throat market.

The Church of Scientology has been on a project to up grade and renovate their various facilities around the country. After extensive testing they decided on using the Centurion acrylic Lacquer from CIC  Coatings they needed something that was commercial grade tough and as well crystal clear which wouldn’t yellow. As well they wanted a product that was as environmentally friendly. The CIC Acrylic lacquer met all these qualities It doesn’t yellow as it is not nitro-cellulous, it’s as hard as a pre-Catalysed lacquer yet it has the moisture resistance of a urethane, it is low VOC and has a relatively low odor.

The Finishing contractor, Jody Toole, of Jody tools Finishing (http://www.jodytoole.com/) has been applying the product with an Kremlin Air assisted Airless spray rig has been over joyed at the results he has been getting.

the following are a few pictures of  one of the recent  Church of Scientology churches which have been renovated using the CIC Acrylic lacquer.

Non yellowing CIC acrylic lacquer

CIC Lacquer on all the furniture

November 8, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Uncategorized, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | Leave a comment

CIC “TL” acrylic lacquer passes the water boarding test,

I have a customer who loves the CIC TL acrylic lacquer, while I was in his shop the other day he showed me the results of a scientific study he was performing with the product, I was so impressed I videoed the test.

The Finisher is Jody Toole and he operates in the LA area doing custom wood finishing if you are interested in contacting him here is a link to his blog: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

The Centurion Acrylic lacquer is a low VOC acrylic lacquer. Acrylics are different than nitrocellulose lacquers, a little more expensive but far superior, they are harder and don’t yellow, as well it is self sealing and they don’t smell as bad when you are spraying them out. This particular product is and advanced Hybrid of what was referred to as a “Cab Acrylic”, the old cab acrylic were very clear didn’t yellow but were relatively soft. the TL series is very hard.

As you’ll see in the short video Jody had his Starbucks cold drink plastic cups on a walnut panel he has finished 6 months ago. He has placed his cups on the panel every day for the last 6 months, as you can see there is not water damage, I love it when I get impressed with my own products. If you are interested in purchasing this product please feel free to contact me Greg Saunders Annex paint at: greg@annexpaint.com


 

thanks if you have any questions please feel free to contact me

Greg
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com

September 28, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Tips and Tricks, Wood finishing | , , , , , | Leave a comment

CIC Centurion Arylic Lacquer

 

This is a realitivly undiscovered product that I’m suprized hasn’t caught on like wild fire so I thought I would do a little more promtoing of it. Orgianlly it was manufactured and sold through Renner, they discontined it as  there main line has been with the water based materials. Then CIC in texas picked it up, they improved the formual and have exported it under there label. the main advantages are:

  • Its low VOC.
  • Low oder.
  • Sprays easily.
  • As hard as a pre-Cat lacquer.
  • Self sealing.
  • Sands easily.
  • Doesn’t Yellow.

You do not want to put it over another product i.e. recaoting old funiture that has and existing if old finish on it. The Resins are different and my  react.

Here is a video of Jody Toole using the acrylic lacquer with the Krimlin.


FYI,

The Los Angeles Church of Scientlogy in Hollywood California renovated there building last year and used this product. After a year of use it is still looking brand new.

 

CIC, Centurion Acrylic Lacquer

April 21, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Wood finishing | Leave a comment

The Kremlin Air Assisted Airless Spray gun video demonstration

This  is a phenomenal spray gun that I have previously not paid enough attention to.  The great benefit of this tool is the increased transfer efficiency or percentage of materials which are making it to the target. With conventional airless you have about a 60% efficiency meaning that you have lost as much as 40% of your paint to the atmosphere and or your spray booth filters. With the Air-assisted airless the transfer efficiency is about 85 % so you are wasting  25% less of your paint.  This  would mean that for every 100 dollar pail of lacquer you are buying  you are saving  about 20 to 25 dollars. That is a savings that can quickly add up and pay for the rig.

In-essence it is pumping the paint out with an airless pump but it uses two opposing  streams of air to atomize the paint  much like a cup or gravity feed spray gun. With the combination of the air,  less pressure is needed to get the paint out and so more of your paint goes on the thing you are painting and less of your paint bounces off the surface and into the air.

The other benefit is that is applies the materials with less force and so give you a smoother finish, in the following video Jody Toole has been using an airless sprayer but was having some troubles with bubbling on the first coat, this was being caused by too much pressure resulting in the materials foaming when they impacted with the surface of the panel. he solved this by backing down the pressure and holding his gun further away, while that solved the bubbling it gave and even lower transfer efficiency and the material did not flow out as well. With the Kremlin all these issues were resolved.

The cost of the whole rig is about 2700 bucks and that is a little pricy but depending on how muc you spray you’ll have paid for it in savings on materials, which by the way are getting  more expensive by the day with rising gas prices.

For note: Jody is spraying the CIC low VOC acrylic lacquer which is, in essence a cab acrylic on steroids  for those of you that may have used such a thing in the past,  it is 160 gr/lt. VOC,  it is low odor and it won’t yellow.  This is the same product featured elsewhere on the blog that the Church of Scientology’s new Los Angeles and Pasadena church furniture are coated in.

 

I sell the Kremlin so if you are in my neighborhood call me and we can get together for a demo if not you can look them up on-line and find the nearest dealer. There are other companies that have air assisted air less equipment as well.

Since this article Jody has gone off and done a few more video demos and so I though I would add them to this posting  so that you could see some other demonstrations of the rig.


 

I welcome your comments.

best,

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

April 12, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , | 12 Comments

CIC’s LOW VOC Acrylic lacquer in action

The Rapidly expanding Church of Scientology recently renovated one of there  churches at 1413 L Ron Hubbard Way, Los Angeles  and in so doing wanted to use an environmentally friendly low VOC product that would not yellow and yet be tough enough to with stand the beating of  commercial wear and tear.

After a lot of testing they settled on the CIC acrylic lacquer it is nearly as hard  as a pre-catalyzed lacquer with out the toxic acids but  it doesn’t yellow as will all nitrocellulose lacquers.

 Additionally they needed something very clear that would highlight the Walnut veneer which was the theme of the cabinetry.

Here are some pictures of the wood work and the finish:

a phenomenal finishing job

It's a little hard to capture the clarity of this coating with a camera

June 5, 2010 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer | 2 Comments

Renner Acrylic lacquer -Tips for scuccess

 

This is a brief write-up from a finisher who has been successfuly using the Renner Low VOC Acrylic Lacquer

Dear Greg,

 As you requested I’m giving you a little write up on the Renner Low VOC Acrylic lacquer from that you have been supplying to me.

 I have been using the Renner Lacquer and really like this product.

 I wanted to detail some of the basic procedural points I employ when using this product that may help other people who use it:

  

  • I generally only need 2-3 coats of the Renner to get a beautiful finish. 2 coats are most common if you don’t thin the product. The product does not need to be thinned. I have thinned the Renner Acrylic lacquer but only on the final coat if you don’t wish to have any further build up than what I already have on the piece I am spraying. You shouldn’t this this any  more than about 5% per manufacture’s specs any way.

 

  • The key to spraying a good finish is having your gun set properly based on your spraying conditions ( mainly temperature and size and shape of the item you are spraying .) I generally have the PSI on my gun set between 20-40 no more than 40 psi. Then watch your spray in reflected light as you are spraying to ensure you have a wet coat over your whole job.

 

  • I have found that the Flattening agent in the Renner Lacquer tends to settle rapidly to the bottom of the can or spray gun. I have picked up a gun that I had sitting with the renner Acrylic lacquer in it for a few hours and sprayed it and the first thing that comes out is the white flattening past that has settled to the bottom of the cup. A light sand and then re-spray with the same product handled that for me. I have also had spots of white spit out of the gun these are just the flattening past that settled. You have to let the lacquer dry and then sand then off and re- shoot it. The over all handling is to stir and strain the materials well and then don’t let your gun sit for too long. If you use a pot system then stir the pot regularly. Shaking the materials well before you use them is also a good Idea. The flattening past goes back into solution very easily.  

 

  • I always test spray something before I lay on a coat and especially the final coat; I want toknow that the gun and materials are all dialed in before lay the materials on the final coat.

 

Hope this is helpful.

Tia D

 Tia has worked in a custom mill that produces a wide Varity of custom mill work that has been shipped and installed around the world. She has been applying high end finishes for about 4 years and is one of the best and most detail oriented people in the trade. I asked here for this little write up to help other customers with this product.  

  In addition to Tia’s Tips I wanted to add a few other characteristics about this material that I have found about it.

  •  This is an acrylic lacquer, the qualities of it are that it doesn’t yellow and it is nearly as hard as a Catalyzed lacquer, however, you can’t mix it with regular nitrocellulose lacquers. You have to keep these materials separate and do not mix them.
  •  You also don’t want to use this material over another lacquer it is self sealing and is used with it’s self spray in a light coat and lat that flash off and then your following coats to the desired build. You can glaze between coats.

 

If you have questions or comments send me a line I’m always interested in hearing what people are running in to.

 Best,

 Greg Saunders

Annex Sales Rep

greg@annexpaint.com

July 1, 2009 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Finishing failures and the fix, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , , | 2 Comments

Acrylic Lacquer: A new, low voc clear coating for wood.

    No two finishing lines are exactly the same. Nor are the finishing standards or production goals identical from facility to facility  or shop to shop. To satisfy a wide range of variables relating to application, curing, finish durability, appearance, environmental requirements, “green” sustainability initiatives, and cost, I have been on a constant search for the different coatings out in the market.  To this end we have brought in yet another product for our customers to use.

 

   First of for those who may not be  familure with some of the other products that are generally use in the world of finishing to day.

 

   Nitro cellulose Lacquer, the basics.


Nitrocellulose lacquer is made by mixing fast-drying solvents generally know as lacquer thinners with wood and cotton pulp containing cellulose that has been broken down by acids. A chemist working for the DuPont Chemical Company, is credited for inventing nitrocellulose lacquer in 1921. It was quickly picked up by Henry Ford for his mass-produced automobiles because finished cars could come off the assembly line faster. Not long afterward, nitrocellulose lacquer replaced shellac and oil-based varnishes and became the preferred finish and the industry standard for furniture and cabinet manufacturers.
: nitrocellulose lacquer is relatively inexpensive and dries quickly. The cured resins provide a reasonable protective layer of film over the wood. After the hard film cures, it rubs out well and provides it signature  smooth and silky surface that, Also, because it is an evaporative finish, each new coat of lacquer blends into all the previous coats, making it easy to repair.

The benefits for large and small production shops are considerable

The disadvantages to using nitrocellulose lacquer are also notable. The film yellows as it ages, and it can eventually shrink to the point of causing cracks (often called crazing) to form in the surface. Generally this occurs when you have over built the coating. As well, it does not hold up well in moisture i.e. your kitchen and bathroom.  Best results fore application are by spraying it on; but the overspray is highly flammable. (The same ingredients that go into nitrocellulose lacquers are also used in the manufacture of some explosives.)

Because it dries so quickly, when applied under conditions of high humidity, the lacquer film can trap condensed moisture and cause the finish film to appear cloudy — a problem referred to as blushing. You can overcome that finishing obstacle by adding a slower-drying thinner, called a retarder, which allows the moisture to escape before it gets trapped in the film.

 

  The need for something that doesn’t yellow and has a greater moisture tolerance.

 

Acrylic lacquer

 

  With the increased popularity of using unstained, light-colored woods (such as ash, birch, and maple), woodworkers and furniture manufacturers wanted to avoid the yellowing problems associated with nitrocellulose lacquer as it ages. The finishing industry responded by developing lacquers containing acrylic resins that are truly “water-white.” Acrylic resins go on crystal-clear and stay that way over time. The most widely used of these products is called CAB-acrylic lacquer, made with cellulose acetate butyrate and acrylic resins.: it is best applied by spray equipment, diluted with regular lacquer thinner to obtain the ideal spraying viscosity, and it is fast-drying. Acrylic lacquer is often used as a protective topcoat over colored pigment lacquers to make them wear better and to enhance their resistance to scratches.

Acrylic lacquer dries to a less brittle and more flexible film than that of nitrocellulose lacquer. It is also more expensive. Otherwise, the working properties are much the same

 

The acrylic Lacquer I like:

 

Renner the Italian wood coating manufacture has long provided me with exceptional water based products wanted to get into the American nitro cellulous lacquer market and released their “JL” series 161 VOC acrylic lacquer. Why they had to go and name it like that is beyond me, I would have preferred a snazzy marketing name that I could refer to it as, but, oh well.

 

Here are the qualities of this product:

 

Low VOC, more environmentally friendly and you can reduce it and still be compliant; a word of caution though, over thinning it has caused problems. Suggested total amount you thin it is not more than 5%.

 

Low Odor, It does have a smell but it’s not half as bad as other products.

 

Self Sealing, You don’t need a different product to seal this with. Best practice is to lay down two thin coat and then sand it as if it were a sanding sealer.

 

Non-Yellowing, what else do you say this doesn’t yellow as any regular lacquer or Pre catalyzed lacquer will.

 

Dies Quickly and Hard, I have had a hard time digging my nails in to this stuff, so it is almost as hard as a pre-cat if not harder. As well the acrylic is much more UV resistant,

 

18% Solids, this is a term that a lot of people don’t get but is a very important datum when evaluating a coating. Basically it’s thicker and so you get more square foot coverage. For reference the most common lacquer on the market is 11% solids it’s cheaper but you have to spray twice as much. For most shops there labor is more costly than there materials and so the few buck you save on materials ultimately cost you more in the long run.  

 

 

Cautions I have found:

 

Don’t over thin it. With a lacquer thinner, you can thin it 5 or 10% but not beyond that it will blush and do strange things. In essence when you thin some materials you are trying to increase the viscosity and make it come out of your spray gun better. If you over thin it you begin to alter the chemical make up and that is where you get into problems.

 

Don’t apply it over another manufactures sealer. A, you don’t need to use a sealer and B, the acrylics are not compatible with the lacquers when you do this the nitro-cellulous  in the earlier coating get re-wetted and then reacts with the acrylic resins and does weird stuff.

 

I now have several large manufactures using this product and having great successes with it.

 

If you are interested in this product give me a call if you have had successes or failure with this product I would like to know about them. One of the things I have learned in this business is that you test always. The greatest test of a coating is the test of time. How long did it last and where?

 

Best,

 

Greg  

 

 

 

 

April 22, 2009 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Finishing failures and the fix | , , , , , | 61 Comments