Woodfinishers Weblog

Wood finishing forum for professional finishers

Cabinet finishing with Automotive polyurethane

In addition to playing with my new gopro and evo stabilizer I wanted to post a video of the use of polyurethanes on cabinetry, the automotive grade urethane is the way to go if you want the toughest of finishes that will never yellow. In this video shot in the Thomas Craven Wood finishing studios in Van Nuys California, Tom had a residential customer that wanted the best of the best and commercial grade finish, we are using a PLC automotive urethane that you can buy from Annex paint, (I’ll get that product up on he web site) roughly the materials shown with the reducer were about $150.00. the gallon of material, the quart of activator and the gallon of reducer.  That’s 4 X what you would pay for a similar amount of Pre Cat lacquer  and two to three times  what you would pay for a conversion varnish.  The walnut paneling  had a stain and color treatment which was sealed with a CIC vinyl sealer after which it received the treatment you see in the video.

For note, I didn’t edit out any of the spraying footage to shorten the video length. what you see is three coats of material apply in rapid succession. the length of the video is how long it took to apply.  After spending a few days curing  from that application it is installed.

Another thing to note here, is the application of the “FOG” coat as its called the first of the three applications, as show you are barely covering the surface.

For Reference, the term, “Flash off” is used to refer to letting the faster evaporating solvents evaporate. Solvents in coatings are staged and timed. the faster evaporating solvents allow the materials to flow out nicely and level out. the slower solvents allow the resins to harden properly. like concrete there are stages to drying and curing.

Do you need that much protection in your home? Most likely not.  I would generally recommend this product for and exterior application, front doors, fancy wooden garage doors and the like.  Or in commercial establishments, bar and table tops of restaurant dining tables. A big family with young kids, over worked parents and no maid? might not be a bad Idea… Smuckers Jelly if left on the minimally finished pre-cat cabinet door will soften the finish if left on for  a few days. I was told by a 4 year old authority on the matter that finger painting with Jelly was really fun. who Knew…

Feel free to post comments I’ll try to answer them, you are welcome to email me if you have immediate questions  you can visit the annex web http://www.annexpaint.com site for purchasing these products.

Best,

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

November 28, 2018 Posted by | polyurethane, speciality finishes, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Uncategorized, Wood finishing | , , , , | Leave a comment

Back painting glass using the CIC Mustang adhesion promoter

Adhesion promoters are a very useful tool to have in your belt as a finisher, as you will see in this very informative video by master finisher and good friend Thomas Craven, of Thomas Craven studios in Van Nuys California.

Back painting glass is what we are doing here, the other uses for this product are where you have to paint  rubber or plastic, this product was originally designed for painting plastic bumpers  and parts for the automotive industry ( Rubber bumpers on cars, 30 years ago that was a joke). Another use is painting over plastic laminates. I had a customer that bought some very expensive custom cabinet doors from Italy, they were a laminate that had a custom wave C-N-Ced in to the door, the customer made a mistake and got the wrong color,  we used the adhesion promoter on these and fixed the color.

Tom is using the CIC mustang adhesion promoter to back paint glass that is going to be used as a black splash, this is a cool little technique and is very popular. It has high tech ultra modern look and is easy to do, getting the paint to stick to the Glass is the tricky part.

An adhesion promoter is in essence a spray on glue that bonds to the glass and then bonds to your paint and thereby promoting adhesion, Simple Right?    yes and no.

There are a few key application points that Tom goes over in the video that are very Key, two light  (underline) coats. this is not a coating in itself you just want enough to get so stick.

NEXT POINT, you apply  your paint while the adhesion promoter is still tackie. don’t let it dry and then paint over it you have defeated the purpose.

The CIC mustang is a great product as it sprays out very light and doesn’t clump or clog, when looking at the glass you wouldn’t know that there was anything other than the color coat, and guess what you can get that product and other fine CIC products on my web site at http://www.annexpaint.com. if  you have questions you are welcome to write to me at info@annexpaint.com.

and here’s the video:

 

best,

Greg Saunders

 

February 2, 2015 Posted by | Conversion varnish, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , | Leave a comment

The importance of clean air for your wood finishing

Just when you think you know it all, you learn something new. Truthfully, once you get over the notion that you know it all the learning really begins.

Experience is a great thing and is something  you gain after putting in your time, But true wisdom is always keeping and eye out for what more there is to know about something and how might things be done better.  With that bit of wisdom I’ll tell you about having clean air in your wood finishing shop, something that I have recently gotten a greater appreciation of.

Clean Air does several things for your finishing, all of them good,  dirty air is a combination of three things.

1. Oil,
2. Dirt,
3. Water or moisture.

Oil can come from your compressor or from oils in the air  the compressor suck in, Likewise, Dirt comes in to the compressor or can be from the compressor, little metal flake from the inside of the tank or little rubber from the hoses that need to be replaced. all of these things can land in your finish and screw it up making you have to wait for it to dry sand it down and then reshoot it. Added time and lost money.  Lastly water and moisture, comes from the condensation of the air when it is compressed and
un-compressed and is something that you will always have a degree of, more in the colder humid months.

In the automotive industry and when spraying urethanes and high-end finishes this is vital as the tiniest amount of moisture will ruin a finish. In the wood finishing industry the importance of clean air is often not stressed enough.  but that being said when you start getting over 15% humidity in your air you clear coats won’t dry as quickly and wont be as hard or as clear. If you look at a clear coat that is cloudy under a microscope you’ll thousands of tinny bubbles  that are quite often  water drops that were trapped inside the finish,  With water based products you can get away with more humidity but despite that all of your coatings water base or otherwise will dry faster and harder when you have decreased the humidity below 15% for the high end automotives you want to be blow 5%

There is another benefit to having dry air and that is your air tools will last longer.

We installed the RTI PERF 50 system in Thomas Craven’s wood finishing studio and here is a video of him telling you what the system does and how much it has improved his finishing.

The Perf 50 system is great unit designed to handle the air flow of a two booth shop.  there is a smaller unit for a single booth application and you can go with less expensive systems than these. minimally you want to have a three stage system that removes oil, water moisture and dirt. the oil and dirt filters are sometimes combined.

I ‘m now certified by RTI to do air quality testing and have the tools to come out to a shop and test the air to see how much moisture and dirt are coming out of your hoses.

If you have any questions about the matter please feel free to send me an email or leave a comment. In the coming months I start having RTI parts and equipment on the annexpaint.com web site for sale.

Best,

Greg Saunders
Annexpaint

February 6, 2014 Posted by | Finishing failures and the fix, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Uncategorized | Leave a comment

Heating your Lacquer for phenominal results (kremlin in-line lacquer heater)

I thought I had said more on this subject of heating your coatings for better results and perhaps I have, but now time has gone by and the data has been buried somewhere over the years in some article somewhere in my Blog making it not all that useful.

Let me get to the point; when you raise th temperature of your coating, be it water based or solvent you are reducing the viscosity or thickness of the materials. With in a certain range of temperature for every 10 degrees warmer you make your lacquer (be it water based solvent or urethane)  you will make your product 10% thinner. The great aspect about that is that you are not reducing the volume of solids. 

If you thin a coating  50% you’ll have to put on twice the number of coats to achieve the same build. Here in America the labor is your most expensive commodity.  Now if you can raise the temperature of the materials 50 degrees you achieve that same amount if thinning but you would do it with out adding the solvents that will evaporate out and leaving your coating behind.

But that’s not all! In addition to the above the coatings you lay out will flow out better and dry faster. And you can do it with out the expence of Lacquer thinners which are getting expensive.

There are several things you can do to use this data, the easiest is to take your pails off the concrete floor and put them up on wood blocks if nothing else. I have had contractors wrap a heating blankets around their pails and warm their lacquer up that way.  I have even seen finishers put water based lacquers in the Micro wave and warm it up.

Intelligence needs to be used, especially when dealing with flammable materials. Making your materials warmer is the key but I wouldn’t go past the point of heating materials beyond warm to the touch. you can stick your finger in and its warm to the touch Body temperature is 98 degrees so I would say no more than about 104 degrees.  Obviously if your boil your materials you are going to be changing chemical properties. Again, some intelligence please.

With duel component materials you are going to be shortening the pot life. Gradients and testing are key here. I’m a big fan of pushing something to see where their fail point is but not on a customers cabinets, when you are at that point you should have all your procedures all figured out.

Ok, the basics covered,  here are two Video demo’s of Jody Toole using the Kremlin Air-assisted airless spray rig with the new Excite spray gun and the Kremlin materials heater. Jody is a professional finisher in the Southern California area, if you are interested in contacting him you can reach him through his blog at: http://jodytoole.wordpress.com/

In the first clip he is using the rig and in the second he is telling some of the benefits of the whole system. 

And here is the second video Jody describing some of the attributes of the Rig and his review :

For note: the Lacquer that we are applying here is the CIC Coatings Acrylic lacquer I have said so much about int he past.

 Annex Paint sells the Kremlin air assisted airless and all of  its sundries including the heater. If you are in the southern california area and would like a Demo please feel free to contact me.

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com
www.annexpaint.com
818-439-9297

February 17, 2012 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | 20 Comments

How to finish a wooden sink bowl

This is an interesting one that I thought I would share. A furniture designer from Lithuania wrote to me  asking for help with a wooden sink bowl. I have no pictures to share on this one but after I composed the reply I thought there were a few things in the reply that wood finishers would appreciate.

I have changed the original message from the designed only slightly to protect his identity.

Hello,

My name is Tomas, I am an independent furniture designer. 
Currently I have an order to produce a wooden bathroom sink and it seems that you have some products that could assist me in doing this.
Could you recommend a varnish for such a job (the only requirement is that the varnish needs to be glossy)? From what I understand, the varnish, that would be suitable for a wooden sink, must be hot water-resistant, it also needs to seal the pores of wood well. 
If you have a suitable project, how much water does it let through? Are there any special varnishing techniques? 
Do you have a sales representative in Lithuania? 

Thank you in advance!

Hi Tomas,

Thanks for your inquire; There are two routes to go with a project like this. the first is to use a “food-grade” oil for the proposed sink and instruct the customer that they will have to oil it regularly. This is the sort of coating you have on wooden salid  bowls.
 
For something like that you would have to design it in such a way that it was completely sealed on the bottom and in the drain hole as anywhere you have a penetration or where water is going to collect it is eventually going to make its way into the wood and begin to rot the wood. As a note, I would design the bowl in such away so as to be sure that it doesn’t ever sit in water. For example have it on a metal or plastic pedestal so that any water on the sink counter drains off of it. Standing water will be the enemy you’ll have to overcome.
 
The next problem that you’ll have to overcome is getting a coating that is hard enough to withstand the abuse that a sink will get and yet soft enough to expand and contract with temperature changes.
 
For note: I would never warrantee something like that as the moment someone drops something sharp in the bowl and penetrates the coating you are going to have a place where water is going to eventually seep in and then lift you coating.

The next thing to consider is the wood you are going to use. Ideally I would use the hardest wood you can find; epay or iron wood.

All of the above being said I would then suggest the CIC two component water based urethane.  Or the Permashield 200 from monopole both of these products are good the Permashield 200 is a product that is approved for food servicing areas by the US department of Agriculture (USDA). Both of these you can find on my web site at : www.annexpaint.com

In terms of special application procedures for this application. I would do several things; once the bowl was ready for finishing I would wet it with warm water just making it slightly damp. As you are using a water based product this will not react badly with the coating and in fact what it will do is lower the surface tension of the wood which will allow the coating to soak into all the grain pores. Next I would put down several light coats of the polyurethane that are thinned down as much as recommended and as well heated to about 100 degrees Fahrenheit. This will further reduce the viscosity and allow it to soak in as much as possible. Repeat the coating  with a light but thorough sanding in-between coats as many time necessary to achieve the build you want but with a minimum of  4 of 5 coats. Only the first or second coat need the additional reduction, the purpose of this is to achieve maximum penetration into the wood. Lastly I would let it cure for three weeks to ensure that it has reached its maximum hardness before giving it to the customer.

I’m sorry I don’t have a rep in Lithuania but if you would like to fly me over I would love to come. I haven’t shipped material overseas as it is rather coast prohibitive for customers.

The two companies who might have a suitable product are Renner and Icsam  they are both Italian and have very good materials.

Best,

  Greg Saunders

 Cell:      818-439-9297
Office:  818-344-3000
Fax:      818-344-3994

greg@annexpaint.com

www.annexpaint.com

I wonder if my boss would fly me to Lithuania?? 

 

January 11, 2012 Posted by | polyurethane, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , | Leave a comment

Spray Gun Tip Sizes

The following is the complete article on the subject of spray tip sizes as written by Phil Stevens, I  have received  their permission to reprint this article , Phil is a founding member of AWFI, American Wood Finishing institute, and has trained thousands of people on the Correct technology of finishing, including myself. I took a Finishing course put on by  AWFI out here in southern california and came away from the training very skilled.  If you ever have the opportunity to do their training program it is well worth the investment. This article was taken from Phil’s Blog from the Finishing IQ.com site  http://www.finishingiq.com 

Having toiled over correct tip sizing with different manufactures I stumbled across this article while getting a Kremlin set up for a customer the article answered my questions clearly and concisely so rather than spending the time to re write Phil’s article  I decided to plagiarise it completely  (with permission ) and give the credit where credit was due.

Choosing the correct tip and gun set-up for your spray equipment can be very confusing. The overwhelming number of tip sizes, set-up options and differing nomenclature between the equipment manufacturers often leads to finishing problems as a result of using the wrong size of tip.
U.S. manufacturers often use thousandths of an inch to designate the size of the tip. However, many U.S. manufacturers also use millimeters to classify tip size on some of their equipment. This is especially true when specifying HVLP spray gun set-ups. Other non-U.S. manufacturers use millimeters and other types of nomenclature that does not refer to either millimeters or thousandths of an inch. Here are some of the common nomenclature definitions used for some of the spray equipment manufacturers that are used in the wood finishing industry.

Graco
Graco air assisted airless tip sizes: A “512” tip is read as if the first number (5) is doubled to equal 10, which designates the spray pattern width of a minimum of 10 in. wide at a distance of 12 in. from the end of the tip. The second and third number – or in this example, the 12 – represent the tip opening size as 0.012/in. Therefore, if your tip is a “614” number, it would be a 12-in. fan pattern and a 0.014 tip opening.

Graco HVLP and conventional guns are designated as either millimeter or thousandths of an inch or both on the gun set-up size.

Kremlin
Kremlin air assisted airless tip sizes: A “09 -114” – the first number of “09” designates the orifice opening size of the tip, however, the “09” does not refer to either thousandths of an inch or millimeters. It is a numbering system that Kremlin uses to define the orifice size opening. A “06” number is a smaller orifice opening than as “09”. A “12” tip would be larger than a “09”. A “06” equals approximately 0.011/inch. A “09” equals approximately 0.013/inch. A “12” tip equals approximately 0.015/inch. The second set of numbers after the dash refers to the fan pattern width in degrees of arc. A “114” equals 114 degrees of arc in the width of the fan pattern. Therefore, a “94” will be narrower than a “114”. A “134” will be significantly wider than a “114”.

Kremlin HVLP spray gun nomenclature normally uses millimeters to designate tip sizes. Therefore, a 1.0mm tip will be smaller than a 1.5mm.

Binks
Binks air assisted airless tip sizes: For a “114 – 01310”, the “114” designates a standard flat tip. The first three numbers after the dash (“013”) equals thousandths of an inch or 0.013/in. in this example. The last two numbers, or the number “10” in this example, designates a fan pattern width of 10 in. at a distance of 12 in. from the end of the tip. If the tip starts with a “9 – 1311F”, the “9” and the “F” designate that it is a fine finishing tip with a pre-orifice. The tip would have a 0.013/in. orifice opening and an 11 in. fan pattern at a distance of 10 in. from the tip.

Binks HVLP spray gun nomenclature uses gun set-up numbers that must be referenced from their literature to determine their size. Most often they will be referenced with both millimeter and thousandths of an inch.
DeVilbiss
DeVilbiss standard spray guns, HVLP guns and trans-tech guns use millimeters to define the size of the tip and gun set-up.

What size tip is right for your application process?
Tip sizes will vary greatly, depending on the types of material sprayed, the viscosity of the coating, how much material needs to be applied (flow rate), whether it is pressure-fed, siphon-fed or gravity-fed and whether the application is manual vs. automatic spray.

For very low viscosity spray-to-color stains using HVLP gravity-fed spray guns, a 1.2mm to 1.4mm tip will work well. For pressure-fed HVLP guns spraying spray-to-color stains, a 1.0mm to 1.2mm set-up will normally be the range used for tip size. If you are spraying the same material with automated spray HVLP, a 0.08mm to 1.0mm tip size is recommended.

For spraying spray-to-color materials that are slightly higher in viscosity, such as a shader, an HVLP gun normally will work well if the tip size is increased by 0.2mm to 0.4mm for all of the above technologies.
Wiping stains spray best with air assisted airless technology. We recommend using a 0.06 to0 .094 tip size for Kremlin equipment; for all other manufacturers, a 0.28mm or a 0.009 tip orifice size will be adequate. An 8-in. fan pattern width is an average size for applying wiping stains. Larger or smaller pieces require a larger or narrower fan pattern width.

For solids, sealers and clear coats, an air assisted airless gun is recommended. Tip orifice opening size should equal around 0.013/inch. For Kremlin, this would equal a “09” tip. Pattern width of the tip generally ranges from 6 to 12 in. depending on the width of the parts. A wide fan pattern will often provide a more uniform coat with less runs and sags; however, a narrow tip will ensure higher transfer efficiency on narrower parts. Therefore, an average tip size for Kremlin would be a “09 – 114”; for Graco, a “513”; for Binks, a “114 – 01310”.

For heavy bodied primers and glazes, a 0.015 tip or larger on an air assisted airless gun will generally provide a flow rate necessary for these materials. For Kremlin, this would equal a “12 – 114”; for Graco, a “515”; and for Binks, a “114 – 01510”.

For water-based coatings, use the tip and gun set-up recommended by the equipment manufacturer that is specifically designed for water-based materials. These guns and tips are specifically designed to spray water-based coatings without causing shear on the material. We would recommend that you start with the same tip sizes for solvent-based coating. If you are experience problems with micro-foam or bubbles in the finish, you may need to try a larger or smaller tip on a trial and error basis to insure the best result is achieved with the type of water-based coatings you are using. Not all water-based materials are created equal; therefore, an exact recommendation for these materials cannot be offered.

Conclusion
When choosing the correct tip sizes, always take into consideration the following:
Does the stain have a heavy load of pigment? If so, a larger tip may be required.
Is the stain made with only dye colorants? If so, a smaller tip may be best for this type of stain application.
The solvent package of the coating: what is the solvent blend composition and does the material have a fast or slow flash-off rate? This will influence the tip size and gun set-up.
Viscosity of the coating: a larger or smaller tip may be necessary to most efficiently apply the coating depending on the density of the material.
The speed of spray application: Always try to select the tip that delivers the correct amount of material for the speed of application while maintaining the desired finish quality.
If you choose the correct tip size for the job, your finish will look better, you will reduce rework, will experience of spray operator comfort, and will increase the efficiency of the coating application.

June 16, 2011 Posted by | Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Wood finishing | 1 Comment

The Kremlin Air Assisted Airless Spray gun video demonstration

This  is a phenomenal spray gun that I have previously not paid enough attention to.  The great benefit of this tool is the increased transfer efficiency or percentage of materials which are making it to the target. With conventional airless you have about a 60% efficiency meaning that you have lost as much as 40% of your paint to the atmosphere and or your spray booth filters. With the Air-assisted airless the transfer efficiency is about 85 % so you are wasting  25% less of your paint.  This  would mean that for every 100 dollar pail of lacquer you are buying  you are saving  about 20 to 25 dollars. That is a savings that can quickly add up and pay for the rig.

In-essence it is pumping the paint out with an airless pump but it uses two opposing  streams of air to atomize the paint  much like a cup or gravity feed spray gun. With the combination of the air,  less pressure is needed to get the paint out and so more of your paint goes on the thing you are painting and less of your paint bounces off the surface and into the air.

The other benefit is that is applies the materials with less force and so give you a smoother finish, in the following video Jody Toole has been using an airless sprayer but was having some troubles with bubbling on the first coat, this was being caused by too much pressure resulting in the materials foaming when they impacted with the surface of the panel. he solved this by backing down the pressure and holding his gun further away, while that solved the bubbling it gave and even lower transfer efficiency and the material did not flow out as well. With the Kremlin all these issues were resolved.

The cost of the whole rig is about 2700 bucks and that is a little pricy but depending on how muc you spray you’ll have paid for it in savings on materials, which by the way are getting  more expensive by the day with rising gas prices.

For note: Jody is spraying the CIC low VOC acrylic lacquer which is, in essence a cab acrylic on steroids  for those of you that may have used such a thing in the past,  it is 160 gr/lt. VOC,  it is low odor and it won’t yellow.  This is the same product featured elsewhere on the blog that the Church of Scientology’s new Los Angeles and Pasadena church furniture are coated in.

 

I sell the Kremlin so if you are in my neighborhood call me and we can get together for a demo if not you can look them up on-line and find the nearest dealer. There are other companies that have air assisted air less equipment as well.

Since this article Jody has gone off and done a few more video demos and so I though I would add them to this posting  so that you could see some other demonstrations of the rig.


 

I welcome your comments.

best,

Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

April 12, 2011 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , | 12 Comments

Thinning and retarding water based lacquers and coatings

There are a few tips to thinning and retarding water based materials that are common to most all of the water based materials on the market today, knowing these tips can make spraying out water base materials easy fun and most importantly give you the control over the flow of the materials so you  compensate for the varying conditions of your environment.

One of the things to be aware of with water based materials is that they are temperature and humidity sensitive, meaning that on a cold and rainy day it will take forever to dry if left wit out forced air and some heat.

The obvious and wonderful characteristic about water based materials is that you can thin them with water; water is cheap and not explosive.  No one has ever accidentally blown up their shop with a bucket of water.  That being said   you can overthin with water and that can create a mess.

Before we get into percentages and how much you should thin, one thing you should know is that the warmer the materials are, the thinner they will be. This is true of both water base and solvent materials.   Heating pads, bucket heaters and in line material heaters are all things that you can implement.  Inline materials heaters are pricey and not something that are too common here in Southern California  but can be used. More commonly and more practically you can just keep your buckets off the concrete floor or move the bucket in to the office of the shop overnight if it’s cold out. Warming up water base is easier and safer than warming up the solvent materials and in fact with some water base materials you can even warm  them up in the microwave machine, a little impractical but not impossible.  For every 10 degrees you heat the material you will reduce the Viscosity by 10% .  And that is a good thing to know because you can reduce your labor by putting on a thicker coat save our self the labor of having to put on another one of or two more sometimes

Now onto the more practical, the first thing that you should do is adjust your equipment to the material in other words if you have been spraying lacquer with an extra fine airless it’s probably going to be too small an orifice for the water base; you don’t want to overthin it so that you can get it out of  your gun but rather get a bigger tip. Generally a 1.7 mm tip in a cup gun and or something no smaller than a .014 in an airless and that would be the smallest I recommend 1.8 or a 2.0mm tip and needle for a cup or gravity gun.

When you do need to thin the materials down I start out with about 5% water and see how it’s coming out of the gun and laying down, with water based a good heavy coat is what you want if it looks a little blue you are doing good. You want it heavy enough to flow out but obviously not so heavy that  it is running.

Ok the next thing is getting it to flow out and lay down smoothly if it has any orange peel to it then you need some retarder. I generally add the retarder whether I need it or not as I like that fact that it flows out better, this might not be true of all water bases but the ones I have used it just seems to work better with the proper amount  of retarder.

Glycol ether is the solvent for retarding water based material you can also use that for retarding regular solvent lacquers   If you use too much your coating will never dry. The other thing to know is that you can add the retarder too fast and “shock” the material. Shocking information, but true. Dump the retarder directly in to your pot and it can cause itto foam up and have an adverse reaction. Some chemicals go together easily and some don’t;  then there are others that are right on the boarder, this in one of those. So the best way to add the retarder is to mix it 50/ 50 with water first and then add that into the water based lacquer while stirring it. Start out with one to two percent of the   50/50 water retarder solution and see if that doesn’t do the trick for you.  You can go as high as about 4%. If you are working with pigmented water base materials then you can go up to 7% .

White and pigmented lacquers require more and will have a tendency to “mud Crack” (Mud cracking is the phenomena whereas the material dries it begins to crack like mud drying out)   if you don’t use the retarder, what is happening is the solvents are drying out of the pigment faster than the pigment is drying and so you need to slow the process down so that they all dry and flow together.

Not all retarders are the same, some companies sell retarders that are a combination of different things, these work well for solvent lacquers but not always for water based materials.  You either want a lacquer retarder that is made and marked for Water based materials OR you have to test them. The way  you test your normal run of the mill retarder to see if it will work in your waterbased system is to mix it  with water. Simple, if it mixes in you’re good If it separates and doesn’t mix in or foams up and looks weird then its not going to work.  There are a few manufactures that have acetone in their retarder which doesn’t mix well with water If you add that to your water based lacquer its trash.

Ok I hope this information is clear and to the point. Use it and let me know what you get. Leave comments on the blog posting for others to see. I have specifically kept this report completely generic so that if you have a product that you are trying out for the first time it is generally best to contact the manufacture and ask them what they recommend, the better companies will spend the time to answer your questions others won’t

 Thanks,

 Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

February 20, 2011 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Spray techniques, Water based Lacquers | , , , , , | 2 Comments

How you apply lacquer to plastic or glass

Lacquer Plastic and or Glass ?? How would you do that?

Simple, use and adhesion promoter, and what is an adhesion promoter you ask. This is a product that has been around the automotive paint industry for sometime, It has made it’s rise to fame in the auto industry with the advent of the rubber bumper. Painting rubber bumpers is a trick as you need something that is going to stick to the plastic be pliable and then match the paint job on the car.  

 That being said the makers of the water based conversion varnish have come up with and excellent adhesion promoter, called “Mustang” The automotive guys seem to love it and I was of the mind that I wouldn’t have that much use for it but Low and behold I has a custom cabinet shop come to me with a unique problem.

Their customer ordered high end cabinetry from Italy and made a mistake on the color so they need the color changed, OK no problem, good work for some finisher but wait the doors are a thermal foil vinyl coating. What do you do? Yup, Use the Mustang adhesion promoter. 

 Two coats sprayed on from an aerosol can let them dry for a few minutes and the lay on your coatings, in this case I was spraying the centurion water based conversion varnish as you can see in this picture.

the use of adhesion promoters for painting plastic and glass

As you can see there is a profile in the panel making sanding all but impossible despite that the paint stuck like glue.  I built this up with light coats but it only took my three light coats to do what you seen here. I used a 1.7 mm siphon feed gun with about 30 psi of pressure, just enough to get the materials to atomize.

 Once the coating was dried if wouldn’t lift or peel. I was able to scrap it off with a knife and even with that it didn’t peel.

 The Mustang and the Centurion water based conversion coating are available from my store as well as will be available on line at  http://annexpaint.com web site soon.

 Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

July 7, 2010 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, From the Chemist, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Uncategorized, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , | 5 Comments

Renner Acrylic lacquer -Tips for scuccess

 

This is a brief write-up from a finisher who has been successfuly using the Renner Low VOC Acrylic Lacquer

Dear Greg,

 As you requested I’m giving you a little write up on the Renner Low VOC Acrylic lacquer from that you have been supplying to me.

 I have been using the Renner Lacquer and really like this product.

 I wanted to detail some of the basic procedural points I employ when using this product that may help other people who use it:

  

  • I generally only need 2-3 coats of the Renner to get a beautiful finish. 2 coats are most common if you don’t thin the product. The product does not need to be thinned. I have thinned the Renner Acrylic lacquer but only on the final coat if you don’t wish to have any further build up than what I already have on the piece I am spraying. You shouldn’t this this any  more than about 5% per manufacture’s specs any way.

 

  • The key to spraying a good finish is having your gun set properly based on your spraying conditions ( mainly temperature and size and shape of the item you are spraying .) I generally have the PSI on my gun set between 20-40 no more than 40 psi. Then watch your spray in reflected light as you are spraying to ensure you have a wet coat over your whole job.

 

  • I have found that the Flattening agent in the Renner Lacquer tends to settle rapidly to the bottom of the can or spray gun. I have picked up a gun that I had sitting with the renner Acrylic lacquer in it for a few hours and sprayed it and the first thing that comes out is the white flattening past that has settled to the bottom of the cup. A light sand and then re-spray with the same product handled that for me. I have also had spots of white spit out of the gun these are just the flattening past that settled. You have to let the lacquer dry and then sand then off and re- shoot it. The over all handling is to stir and strain the materials well and then don’t let your gun sit for too long. If you use a pot system then stir the pot regularly. Shaking the materials well before you use them is also a good Idea. The flattening past goes back into solution very easily.  

 

  • I always test spray something before I lay on a coat and especially the final coat; I want toknow that the gun and materials are all dialed in before lay the materials on the final coat.

 

Hope this is helpful.

Tia D

 Tia has worked in a custom mill that produces a wide Varity of custom mill work that has been shipped and installed around the world. She has been applying high end finishes for about 4 years and is one of the best and most detail oriented people in the trade. I asked here for this little write up to help other customers with this product.  

  In addition to Tia’s Tips I wanted to add a few other characteristics about this material that I have found about it.

  •  This is an acrylic lacquer, the qualities of it are that it doesn’t yellow and it is nearly as hard as a Catalyzed lacquer, however, you can’t mix it with regular nitrocellulose lacquers. You have to keep these materials separate and do not mix them.
  •  You also don’t want to use this material over another lacquer it is self sealing and is used with it’s self spray in a light coat and lat that flash off and then your following coats to the desired build. You can glaze between coats.

 

If you have questions or comments send me a line I’m always interested in hearing what people are running in to.

 Best,

 Greg Saunders

Annex Sales Rep

greg@annexpaint.com

July 1, 2009 Posted by | Acrylic Lacquer, Finishing failures and the fix, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks | , , , , , , , | 2 Comments