Woodfinishers Weblog

Wood finishing forum for professional finishers

How you apply lacquer to plastic or glass

Lacquer Plastic and or Glass ?? How would you do that?

Simple, use and adhesion promoter, and what is an adhesion promoter you ask. This is a product that has been around the automotive paint industry for sometime, It has made it’s rise to fame in the auto industry with the advent of the rubber bumper. Painting rubber bumpers is a trick as you need something that is going to stick to the plastic be pliable and then match the paint job on the car.  

 That being said the makers of the water based conversion varnish have come up with and excellent adhesion promoter, called “Mustang” The automotive guys seem to love it and I was of the mind that I wouldn’t have that much use for it but Low and behold I has a custom cabinet shop come to me with a unique problem.

Their customer ordered high end cabinetry from Italy and made a mistake on the color so they need the color changed, OK no problem, good work for some finisher but wait the doors are a thermal foil vinyl coating. What do you do? Yup, Use the Mustang adhesion promoter. 

 Two coats sprayed on from an aerosol can let them dry for a few minutes and the lay on your coatings, in this case I was spraying the centurion water based conversion varnish as you can see in this picture.

the use of adhesion promoters for painting plastic and glass

As you can see there is a profile in the panel making sanding all but impossible despite that the paint stuck like glue.  I built this up with light coats but it only took my three light coats to do what you seen here. I used a 1.7 mm siphon feed gun with about 30 psi of pressure, just enough to get the materials to atomize.

 Once the coating was dried if wouldn’t lift or peel. I was able to scrap it off with a knife and even with that it didn’t peel.

 The Mustang and the Centurion water based conversion coating are available from my store as well as will be available on line at  http://annexpaint.com web site soon.

 Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

July 7, 2010 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, From the Chemist, Spray techniques, Tips and Tricks, Uncategorized, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , | 5 Comments

Renner 0 VOC Water based Polyurethane in action

Jack Yekikan, the owner of J.P. Cabinets and design, took the plunge and has moved his finishing operation into the using water based products. After attending one of our waterbased seminars he came to me and said “I want the bet of the best you have in water based finsihes, I want to offer my clientell a superior product that is envirometally friendly and yet is as good or better than conventional lacquer or conversion varnish”.

So we set to work at getting he and his finishing crew trained up on using water based materials, It is simple  but there are a few things you have to do a little differently, for one you have to use a larger tip size on  your spray gun and as well you have to adjust for the drying times being a little longer. That being done we they started out on a relitivaly small application that was simple and straigh foreward. They began using the Renner YL-1150- 00 sealer and the Renner YO-1245 premiun top coat with an additional catylist which made it harder than a pre-catylized lacquer and more water resistant than a conversion varnish. That work out well and the customers were very happy with the work.

While Jack was completely happy with the product he still wanted the best of the best and so began using the Renner Water based polyurethane. YO-M750 00. This is a product that can be use with and additional solvant catylist or not. After experimentation Jack decided that the additional hardner was unnessary for the residential application. This product was applied over the same sealer, one of the great advantages of the Renner system. The stain used was the Renner TY series of spray on stains the same renner stain were used in with the Renner glazing compound  

The pictures I have here, are of some of the cabintery installed in the house but the house still under construction. with permission from the owner of the house we’ll hopefully be able to take a few professional pictures of the cabinetry once all the work is done and the house has been occupied.

These products can be found on my web site at: www.annexpaint.com

If you are interested in getting help moving your shop into  water based materials feel free to contact me, If  you are in the Los Angelse I’ll come over to your shop and  spray out the different coating so you can get familiure with them.

If you want to contact Jack at J.P cabinets here is his contact  info:

Jack Yekikan 
JP Cabinets
12780 Pierce Street Pacoima,
CA 91331-1969 –
(818) 686-6270 
http://www.jpcabinet.com/

 FYI: I have to say, I was very impressed with both the cabinetry work and the finsihing J.P. Cabinets does.

bathroom vanity

and incredible finish

June 5, 2010 Posted by | polyurethane, Stains and glazes, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | Leave a comment

Sucess story using the Rexcell water based conversion varnish

Walnut Kitchen Island finished with W/B Conversion Varnish

 This is a story from  a gentleman who is a retired air force officer whose hobby is cabinet and furniture building, As you’ll see he is an incredible cabinet builder.

 As his shop is in his garage with limmetted space and no spray booth Dennis was interested in water born products but needed something that was super tough. I suggested the Rexcell  Water based Conversion varnish. As you will see it turn out stunningly beautiful.

Fore note: this product is no longer manufactured by Rexcell but is now being manufactured to spec by another American manufacturing company, the product is as good or better than before, It has been referred to as three different manufactures Renner, Rexcell and now CIC. It is all the same product, a water born Conversion Varnish.

Here’s is the Story Dirrect from Dennis : 

FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH WATER BASED FINISH

 I have been building wooden furniture and cabinets as a hobbyist for over forty years. Over this period I have sprayed, brushed and wiped on all the standard finishes that hobbyist woodworkers usually use. Because I’m in my upper sixties in age, I have looked upon the new water based finishes for wood with skepticism. I recently finished a kitchen island for my daughter’s new kitchen. It’s a walnut cabinet with a maple butcher block top. It measures 50 inches long by 30 inches wide by 36 inches high. And, I sprayed a water based conversion coating (called water based lacquer) for the protective finish. This was my first experience with a water based coating and I’m extremely pleased with the way it turned out. I chose it for it’s touted durability which was demonstrated to me by Greg Saunders, a sales representative for the Annex Company of Reseda, California. Greg showed me samples, coated with the product I used, that he placed in his home shower for approximately two months and the durability was impressive. ( You can see this test in another post on the Blog)

 The material I used is made by the Rexcel Company, and is a water based conversion varnish, meaning that it is tough enough for counter tops and moisture resistant for high moisture areas)

I used a Goldenstar HVLP air spray gun (Advertised as being especially for water based finishes)

( This is an inexpensive but quality spray gun that Annex paint sells)

Fluid orifice: 1.7mm (this size is recommended for this water based product)

Pressure required: 15-50 psi (I used 30 psi)

 I was spraying in 90 degree summer weather and therefore added 3 percent of regular lacquer retarder. Greg, the sales rep, said I could thin the product with water by about 10 percent but I used it full strength and it seemed to spray very well. I am used to spraying regular nitro cellulose lacquer and I used the very same technique with this water based lacquer. It appears milky in color when it first goes on but otherwise it sprays on like regular lacquer. You have to use the same caution on vertical surfaces as with regular lacquer. A good technique is to use a big piece of brown cardboard to adjust your spray volume and pattern before tackling your project.

 I sprayed three coats and sanded lightly between coats. I probably could have gotten by with only two coats. Remember, each coat of this water based finish lies on top of the previous coat. It doesn’t melt into the previous coat as with regular lacquer. As with regular lacquer, this product dries quickly and can be sanded within 20 minutes and recoated. It was hot and dry when I sprayed so weather conditions might alter the drying times. After the third coat, it was a bit too glossy for my preference so I waxed with a steel wool pad which resulted in a soft sheen that I was looking for. I’m totally happy with the way it turned out.

 I kept a bucket of water and a rag nearby while I was spraying. A couple of times when I got runs, I immediately wiped it off, let it dry, sanded lightly, and recoated. I really enjoyed the water clean up – of the runs and the clean-up of the spray equipment. A word here about clean-up – and this attests to the durability — if you wait until this finish dries, you can’t clean up with water – it takes acetone. I sprayed the first coat with my regular glasses on (plastic lenses). I got overspray on my glasses and I still haven’t gotten it off. However, acetone on my plastic lenses would probably not be smart.

 I made a silverware tray at the last-minute for one of the cabinet drawers and I brushed on two coats of finish with a foam brush. That went on very nicely too. Will I continue to use water based finishes? — definitely yes, especially for kitchen and bathroom furniture. Will I use it for living room furniture? – the jury is out, but I’m hoping to.   

Here is another picture of Dennis’ work. For note this stunningly beautiful Kitchen Island was built by Dennis for his daughter who recently returned from active service in the Military in Iraq.

Walnut cabinet finished with Rexcell water based conversion Varnish

 For his privacy, I have left out Dennis’s contact informations, However, you are welcome to comment on his work and ask any questions on this blog. If you are intersted in contacting Denis for custom work please send me an e-mail and I’ll foreward it on to him.

 As always if you have finnishing qustions you can leave me a comment here on the Blog or write to me dirrectly at : greg@annexpaint.com

February 12, 2010 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers | , , , , , , | 2 Comments

I’m new to the Finishing Game and have questions

The following are a few questions sent into me by a new finisher  I am posting with his permission.

Hi Greg

I am new to this spraying game and wondered if you could let me know what flash off means, also I’m using Sayerlack Hydroplus: waterborne clear self-sealer and so far so good, the finish is great, though i am working in a cold barn with a home made spraying booth and even though I have extraction and filters I am finding particles on the finish. Also what is a good grit to sand in between lacquer coats?

Hi Loukas,
Ok, the term “flash off” is the term referring to the solvents evaporating generally used in reference to solvent based coatings but does in fact apply to water based materials, the solvent being water.

There is the first period after you have sprayed something; its wet, and the solvents are evaporating, i.e. its drying. After that point the coating continues to dry but at a much slower rate. That first stage is the time the solvents are “flashing off”. After that point it might be dry to the touch but still soft. In essence the top layer of the coating has dried but the deeper layers are still drying. Most all coatings dry from the top down unless they are epoxies and urethanes that dry internally with a chemical reaction caused by mixing a part A and B.

Water base materials generally dry slower than solvent based materials but will dry even slower in cold or humid conditions. To speed things up you do two things; heat your materials and or heat your spray area. As you are using water base materials you don’t need to worry about having explosion proof heating (which is something you do have to have when spraying solvent based lacquers.) heat and low humidity with air flow will dry your work faster. That it is drying so slowly makes it more susceptible to dust landing in the still wet finish.

You can also heat your lacquer. For one, don’t store it on the cold concrete floor over night. Minimally keep it off the ground. Warm it up before using it by sticking your gallon pail in a tub of hot water. Or wrap a heating blanket around the can. There are more expensive fluid heaters that heat the liquids as they are going through the hoses to the Gun, Those things are for the pro shop that you aren’t going to need for a while (you can look up fluid heaters or pail heaters on sites like Grangers, Northern tools, and Mc Masters-Carr)

 Just getting your water based materials above room temperature is gong to make a significant difference in the flow out and drying time of you work. Cranking it up to about 98 degrees and you’ll see a finish like glass. When you start heating up the materials that much however you need to have the ambient air temperature and the work piece temperature relatively high other wise your hot materials are going to start pulling moisture out of the air and that will cause you finish to have a slightly milky appearance, which in essence is moisture trapped inside the coating.

Ok the next question: what grit sand paper should you use in-between coats, good question. I use 220 silicone carbide paper 220 is the grit you need much higher than that and you are wasting your time. the silicone carbide is a great paper as the tiny little particles that make up the sand in the sand paper break down evenly so you get and even scratch. There are other fancier papers, Abernete and garnet some people thing there the best others don’t. The other thing you can use is a scotch bright pad there are several different brands 3M makes a few and Mirca (another abrasives company makes a few)

Hope that helps, send me some picture of your operation in exchange for the free advice I would love to hear how it all turn out.

I’m going to post these conversations for others to view, if that’s ok with you.

Best of luck,

Greg Saunders

ANNEX PAINT

818-439-9297

 

 

 

November 25, 2009 Posted by | Finishing failures and the fix, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers | 3 Comments

Is Rexcel Water based conversion coating flammable ?

I had a contractor ask  me the question is the conversion coating flammable as he was going to finish a wine cellar in a basement where there was a gas burning furnace. Normally when spraying lacquers on a job site you want to make sure that all open flames are extinguished Vapors sometimes being heaver then air can sprayed along the ground to a gas burning water heater and go boom –not good. Matt the contractor wanted to find a water based material that would not have this problem and was interested in the Rexcel conversion coating  the following is my response …

“The materials are not flammable However, they are potentially combustible, you should always spray in an area that is properly ventilated and I would, if at all possible turn off the furnace while spraying. Inert dust, such as saw dust or even flower can become explosive all by itself if there is a sufficient quantity of in suspended in the air. Like wise with a sealed room full of over spray and vapor.

The Rexcel conversion coating is water based but it does have volatile chemicals in it.  If for some reason you can’t turn off the furnace then ventilate the room so that your fumes are being sucked out of the room and not into the furnace.”

All that being said I doubt you would have a problem, but I don’t want to be the on that gets you blown up. What I have done personally in the past when confronted with such situations is to erect a temporary spay booth around the work with Plastic and 2X2s or something similar. Tape it to the ceiling and floor, Home depot sells zippers that you can tape on to the plastic and use as an entry and exit.  Then I would duct in (either with plastic or flex dusting you can also find at home depot) and air supply and an exhaust, I have built some pretty spiffy spray booths in some real swanky homes where the customers did not want to spell lacquers. You can put a A/C air filter on the exhaust side to catch particles before it goes out a window.   

 Let me know if that is helpful.

Greg Saunders

ANNEX PAINT

November 12, 2009 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers | , , , , , | 1 Comment

What is the best finish for my Kitchen?

Since I have had this blog up I have had numerous calls and emails from homeowners and professionals alike asking what is the best finish for my kitchen?  Some go on to say things like my contractor wants to put Valspar luster lac on but my architect tells me that we should use polyurethane and my neighbor say use water base. What do I do?

 The simple answer is have all these people give you samples of the finish not only should you ask for a sample but have them do a sample on the same wood and materials that  you are going to have in your kitchen: alder, cherry, maple or what ever. Then have them use a door or a cabinet from your kitchen. If you have to pay a little for it you should.  A real good finishing job is expensive and worth it using multiple steps in the finishing process you can gain a depth and clarity that you don’t with the lower quality finishing.

By survey, a well painted room or a high quality cabinet finishing job will make a room “feel different” the untrained person coming into the room will feel more comfortable and will prefer the room with the higher quality finish to the room with the lesser quality finish. The technology behind this is the fact that consciously or not a person does perceive imperfections and they will make you feel to one degree or another uncomfortable. The same thing is true when you go into a room that is off square and a room that is perfectly square even when the rooms are identical in every other aspect by test, most people will “like” the square room better. Not all things are square, nor do you always want square. The point being that people can perceive the difference in quality and workmanship, when the difference is not as obvious. Ever notice the phenomena of seeing two similar looking products you pick up the more expensive one? 

 I’ve digressed; a good finish is worth the extra cost. That being said, what are the differences and the pros and cons of each.

 Nitro-cellulous lacquer– The easiest to apply; it gives a great look and feel. All regular lacquers will yellow over time, some faster than others. Valspar has been notorious for that. Regular lacquer is relatively soft and will not hold up to moisture. But feel great and therefor it is not good for kitchens and bathrooms. Lacquer finishes are easy to repair as each successive coat of lacquer melts into itself.

 Pre-Catalyzed lacqueror Pre-Cat lacquer, designed about 50 years ago as a material that would hold up to moisture environments better, the kitchen and bath rooms. Pre-cats   have an acid catalyst in the mix that makes it a lot harder and yet it is still relatively easy to work with.  Pre-Cats are what you should have in your kitchen but they have a tendency to crack if applied too heavily and they are not impervious to moisture. You have to wipe up spills and not let the dish water sit in the crevices and cracks of a cabinet door.  Give that door a year with a daily dose of water sitting on it not cleaned up and the coating is going to fail.  You do have to clean up after your spills. If you don’t like that Idea, hire a maid or go with stainless steel. The Pre-Cat lacquer brand I like the best is Gemini. It is thick and yet can be sprayed directly out of the can dries quickly and looks great. 

 Water based lacquers– they have come a long way. They have had a tendency to have a “plasticie” look as the materials lay on top of the wood rather than soaking in to the wood as a lacquer does. One person I know refers to water base materials as nothing but watered down Elmer’s glue. 20 yeas ago that was about what a water based finish looked like.

 Times have changed and the water bases of today are far superior to what they were. Old time finishers who haven’t taken the time to train themselves on how to properly apply the materials still cling to their earlier fixed Ideas on the matter. The truth is that properly applied a water based finish can look just as good as a lacquer finish and is twice as durable as lacquer when it comes to moisture. The trick is in knowing how to apply it and letting the water based materials fully cure. Cure is different than dry. The materials will dry in a few minutes and then take a week or two to fully cure. The other up-side to water based materials are that you are releasing toxins in to the atmosphere don’t however think that water based materials are with out carcinogens. There are lots of nasty chemicals in water based paints they are just not being released into the atmosphere as are the lacquer products. Personally I have a few water based materials that have proven them selves; the Gemini brand “Titanium” and more recently the Italian brand Renner. The Renner is hands down the best water based material I have found to date.  Like a Lamborghini however, it’s pricy at $210 for five gallons as apposed to the $170 a five for Gemini Water based lacquers.

 Conversion Varnish, this is tough stuff and is the product that I would recommend for table tops and high wear areas. It is tougher to work with and is rougher on both the personnel spraying it and the equipment it requires a higher skill set to use and it more difficult to repair. There are high end finishers that do all there work in Conversion Varnish as they want the toughest finish they can provide. It does have great moisture resistant qualities however it is not designed for out side use. The brand I sell and have had good results with is again the Gemini brand. (I have had others  I  stocked and had troubles with. Suffice to say I no longer carry those brands). The Conversion I sell is about $50 to $60 dollars a gallon. And comes with the catalyst you have to add

 Water based conversion coating; This is a new product to the market that I’m beginning to really like. It combines the best of both worlds.  There aren’t many companies that make it. Rexcel is the brand I have, American made and comparable to the solvent base stuff. You can see other articles in this Blog about it.  Very tough and moisture resistant (see the earlier article I wrote where I have pictures of the panels coated with the Rexcel in my shower stall getting the extreme moisture test. The panels have been in there for over two months with two or more showers happening a day and there is no signs of failure in the coating. This particular product needs no further catalysing which makes it very painter friendly.

 Polyurethanes, Water based and other wise, these are the toughest finish that you can get and the most expensive. One part polyurethanes or single stage that have not catalyst aren’t really worth the effort of buying. Most polyurethanes come with a catalyst you have to add before applying similar to epoxy glue, there is a part A and a part B. you have to get the ratios right or it either won’t dry or will dry and crack. They generally sit on top of the wood as a coating and so give it that plastic film look. It’s tough to glaze in-between coats and which is the technique that gives you that depth and quality. There are some really good finishers that can pull the off but normally for the expense that is not something you need for your house or kitchen. This is the product I recommend for commercial applications that is getting high wear and constant abuse. Additionally If you want shinny you can buff and polish polyurethane to a high gloss that is mirror smooth. 

 To give you an idea, polyurethanes are the coatings you put on your floor, that’s the toughness you get from a poly. If you want a high build thick film that you can see this would be the product to use as you can lay it on thick unlike Lacquers.  There are water based polys and solvents based, I carry both.  I wouldn’t recommend doing you kitchen cabinets in polyurethane, that being said I have some very high end finishers who have perfected the skill sets and can product incredible products with polyurethanes. These finishing procedures come with a cost. “Thomas Craven Finishing Company” are at the top of their league for high end work. 

 So what should you have your kitchen done with. Get the samples and look at them. see the look that you like and then decide what you are willing to pay for it. If you are a Hollywood celebrity, have lots of parties and don’t clean, go with the polyurethane. If you are a regular family and are looking to cover you new custom cabinets with something that will preserve them for a long time to come use a Pre Cat lacquer or the water based conversion coating or perhaps the conversion varnish depending on what looks the best for you.

 Either way get your finisher to provide you with samples so you can see the difference yourself. Finishers are usually creatures of habit and like to do what they have done and feel safe with. Often an old school finisher will tell you something is bad because he has no clue how to use it and doesn’t want to learn.

 I enjoy your comments suggestions and opinions.

 Greg Saunders

Annex Paint
greg@annexpaint.com

May 3, 2009 Posted by | polyurethane, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , , , | 34 Comments

Rexcel Water based conversion coating

Well it’s been  now nearly two months since I have placed the panels coated with the water based conversion varnish in the shower and they are still looking great with no signs of coating degradation or lamination. I would say that is pretty conclusive as to there water shedding abilities.

I had a minor issue with the product doing a little fish eye when I sprayed it over  a wet stain that had not been allowed to dry long enough. That is hardly any surprise and expect to find some contamination from the two different chemicals. I would suggest you let stains and glazes dry fully befor coating over the top of them. I was in a hurry trying to pack all I could in on a demonstrations and the fish eye was the result. ( which was worse than if I had just come back the next day!)

Interestingly, I now have a commercial entertainment park using this material to coat over their walls to act as a clear coat that is more durable and washable than the paint.  I have confirmed with the chemist who designed the material that is can be used out side and will hold up to the elements. It does not howerver have UV blocking agents in it so while the coating won’t yellow the wood or stains under the coating if they are not light fast will fade or yellow over time.

Greg

April 10, 2009 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , | 2 Comments

Questions about about what wood finishing product to use and where

I thought I would post an Email that was sent to me with a very valid question. Water Based polyurethanes versus Solvent conversion Varnish. Which is harder which is better?

 

Hello,

 I am in the process of building some pantry cabinets for my shore house.  I want to achieve a nice solid white finish. What would you recommend. I was thinking a white tinted conversion varnish applied w/ a hvlp conversion gun. Any other suggestions. I just need it to be more durable than paint. My other option was to paint then apply a waterborne polyurethane coating.

MR B.

Here is my response and answer to the question

 

Hi Mr. B,

 

You have several options. But what I would recommend is the water born poly or similar product. The conversion vanish is great stuff but is very tough on both the people who spray it and your equipment. The acid catalysis is rough on a body, if you do use it get a spray suit with a hood and wear a respirator. It does produce an incredible finish and fast. On the up side to the conversion varnish it is slightly clearer, but you are not doing a clear over a wood stain so that wouldn’t be a significant issue.

 

The down sides to the waterborne poly is it is a little trickier to spray and requires a larger tip size usually 1.7mm or bigger and you may need to experiment around first to get it to lay down smoothly, you may require a certain amount of retarder so that it will lay out smoothly, 3% is all you would want to add after that it will take forever to dry and will compromise the hardness. Once you have your solution dialed in its pretty simple.

 

I would get a good white primer on first otherwise you will be putting on more coats of the poly that you really need and they are harder to sand. Ellis 1262 water based white primer is a great one. Ellis is however a La company I don’t know where you are. Dunn Edwards and Sherman Williams both make decent primers; a good primer will save you time and money. Get the surface as smooth as you can with the primer then two top coats and you are done.

 

Don’t get a water based poly from Home depot or Lowes the “Minwax” polyurethane they sell isn’t that good and doesn’t do that well. I would get something used by professionals, Renner is what I sell  and I love the stuff this is an Italian manufactured material. Of course there are others that are very good as well. “General Finishes” have a few.

 

I have an incredible product that I really like that is somewhere in-between a water based poly and a Conversion varnish. It is manufactured especially for us by a company called Rexcel I have mention of it on my Blog. If you go to the Blog you can see the Rexcel listings I have there as well as the test I am running with the material. I have three panels I shot my self that are in my shower getting wet daily. So far they have been there a month and show no signs of water damage.  

 

 

  Anyway, that product is interior/exterior and harder than hell, you can also buff it to a mirror finish and is only about 54 bucks a gallon if you are interested in having some shipped. We can do that.  We have it white I believe, the one thing about white is there are several whites so you might want to do some testing first. You can also send us a color sample and we can match it. If you do that you have to provide a board with the color of your choosing that is at least 6”X6” that way we’ll have some thing to work with.

 

 

 Let me know what you decide and how it all comes out. If you are interested send some pictures with a little write up and I’ll post it on the Blog.  There is currently one posting from a guy that did his own kitchen with a water base lacquer and it turned out great. You should read that one as well as there are a few tips in there that are Key. One of which is the fact that all water base materials take longer to dry and longer to Cure. You have to let them cure for a few weeks before they get really hard. You can install them after a day or two but be very gentle with it for at least a week. The Conversion Varnish goes hard with a chemical reaction and will continue to cure for days and weeks but will get harder faster than the water based materials that cure at the rate of water evaporating. That by the way is determined by temperature and relative humidity. You can force dry then with heat and air flow but don’t cook them.

 

 

You got me on a roll here, did I answer your sufficiently?

 

Greg Saunders

ANNEX PAINT

818-439-9297

 

 

 

 

March 7, 2009 Posted by | Conversion varnish, polyurethane, Tips and Tricks, Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , , , | 1 Comment

Test Results for the Water based conversion varnish

In the earlier post I hadn’t really done much  with the water based conversion varnish now that a few months have passed I have some more results to post and some pictures.

I really like this stuff and have begun to sell it in quantities. First thing you should know is that it is now not Renner But Rexcel, has made it all along however we were buying it though Renner; In a mutual agreement with Renner USA we are now buying it direct from the factory which is right here in the USA, Texas as a matter of fact.

This is a single part material that you can catalyze for additional hardness, although I have found that it is not necessary, When you do add the hardener you are not giving it a pot life, normally when you have a product you have to add a catalyst to, you have only a certain amount of time to use the material before it becomes hard, with this you don’t have that problem.  Add the cross linker  ( that is what you call a catalyst for a water based product) today and if you don’t use all the materials today  it won’t go bad on you just add more cross linker tomorrow.

Ok, it goes on smooth, I had some trouble with orange peel but that sorted out easily with the proper application of water-based retarder and then it dries quickly. The day I sprayed  the panels you are about to see it was raining out side and I was spraying  under a canopy that was wide open on two sides. I wasn’t getting rained on but I wasn’t inside by any means.  I had no troubles with Blushing and it dried reasonably quickly which was surprising for a water based product on a cold and rainy day.

Several days later I demonstrated this material to a party rental place that normally uses solvent Conversion Varnish and it went on very smoothly with out retarder needed, The finish looked great and was very hard but the one issue I had was that the sheen died down after drying fully this was dark black mix on party chairs.

Ok I tell people about the materials that I recommend and why I recommend them I don’t say things about materials that have haven’t observed.  I have found  the hard way that it is a year or two down the line where you find out what holds up and what doesn’t.

So here is the test that I am conducting:

I have two  coats of the Rexcel conversion coating on three pieces  of crown molding. As you can see here.

rexol-coating-on-molding-feb19th1

They were sprayed out in January by myself. I have let them cure for a few weeks and now have placed them in my shower to accelerate the wet /dry cycle that cabinets go through.

 

Here is a close up of the back of one of the panels: as you can see this panel was given the two coats and no cross linker.

The Back of the Panel

The Back of the Panel

 Now, here is the test: in the next picture you will see these three panels in my shower, two of them are in the back of the shower and the third one is up in the front of the shower. The panels in the back are going to simulate the normal amount of water that  kitchen  cabinets get in front of the sink. A light mist of water twice a day that is not cleaned off.
The third panels is in the front of the shower and is going to get a hosing daily, twice daily. My wife and I use this shower daily.
Yup, this is my Shower

Yup, this is my Shower

Here is the final picture of the panel that is going to get a soaking daily, we’ll see how long it takes for these panels to show water damage.
panel in the front f the shower

panel in the front of the shower

So far after three days in the shower they are showing no signs of wear or water damage. if they did at this point  that would be extremely discouraging and I probably wouldn’t carry the product. 
Some one told me they did a similar test, but like the Kitchen Cabinet Manufactures Association, they smeared different household products on their panels and found that of all things, tooth paste took off the coating.  So at some later point we’ll try some tooth past and see what that does to our Rexcel coating.
If you have questions and or need help with a particular coating send me an e-mail and I’ll see what we can do to point you in the right direction. I would love to hear back from any of the readers.
until the next time,
Greg Saunders
Annex Paint

February 19, 2009 Posted by | CIC Centurion, water based Conversion Varnish, Conversion varnish, Uncategorized, Water based Lacquers | , , , | Leave a comment

A do it yourselfer does well- here’s the story

Some months ago, Greg, a local homeowner, came in to the store looking to buy some lacquer to re-finish his kitchen, He was going to undertake this project as an anniversary present for his lovely wife.

Armed with very little knowledge and a lot of willingness he went forward with several gallons of Gemini’s water based titanium lacquer. Hector and I gave him several tips while he was at the store. As he was leaving I gave him my card and said call me if you have any trouble.

Two days later on the following Saturday I got the call, ” It wasn’t working the gun was spitting and the finish wasn’t working, what do I do?”  As luck would have it I didn’t have that much going on that weekend and so offered to go out and see what was going on.

Greg  had all the doors hanging in his garage and was set up pretty well to do the job but the binks cup gun he had was not the right tool. the water-base material was too thick and wasn’t coming out of  the gun well.

 This is probably the key thing in dealing with waterbased materials and that is having ther right gun with a wide enough opening on it to allow the  materials to come out and then atomize in to small enough particles to then actually lay down smoothly ( this is covered in full detail in the article on this blog titled “spray finishing basics”  by Thomas Craven) 

Once again as luck would have it I had my spray guns in the back of my truck and wasn’t going to be using then for the weekend and so offered to lend these to Greg. The project was off and running again. here is a picture of the garage spray booth,

The garage spray booth

The garage spray booth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 All things were off and sailing once again! here is a picture of Greg doing the kitchen faces, note that he has the place properly masked off so that all the over spray is captured and not covering the rest of the finish work. ( for an never having done a finishing job, Greg had a few things going for him. I was impressed )

Greg going to town fully out fitted

Greg going to town fully out fitted

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see here  Greg is now using the new gravity spray gun he  later bought from Annex for under $100

He also has a the 3m reusable cup system  you can see here on the top of his gun, this allows him to refill the gun easily and spray in all directions including up.

You would think all was well and the family would live happily ever after in there new kitchen but not yet, the next previously unmentioned aspect was yet to be discovered.

So after sanding his fingers to the bone and getting the finish just right, Greg’s wife has a little spot  of something on a cabinet and proceeds to break out the 409 and clean it off , the day after the final coating and it went down to the bare wood!

The Wife was in despair and Greg was ready to shoot me for selling him a low quality product! the paint was soft and with his little kids was doomed!

Water base coating are actually tougher and more durable then there solvent based counter parts BUT ! you have to let them cure ! the Kitchen cabinet Manufacturer’s Aassociation let’s their test panels cure for 30 days before subjecting then to all the things they do i.e. mustered, vinegar, jelly, alcohol and all the other house hold product they test.

With reluctance, Greg was willing to let the finish cure until after the holiday before shooting me to see if in fact I was on the up and up with him.

As my luck would have it the finish cured hard and has resisted all that  could be throw at it. Here is the final shot after the holidays and all was said and done.

a stunning piece of work

a stunning piece of work

Greg called me up after the holidays to thank me for seeing the project through to a done.

As you can see it turned out great in the end.

Thanks to  Home Owner Greg, for sharing the pictures with me and the permission to post the story on our Blog.

If you have a project you would like to have some help with send me a line, if you are interested in doing it you self  I’ll set you up and turn you looSe, If you want a professional finisher to do the work I have the names and numbers of nearly every cabinet shop in the surrounding area and would be happy to refer you to the people i have seen consistently do good work.

Greg Saunders
818-439-9297

Annex Paint
7450 Reseda Blvd.
Reseda California
91335

January 19, 2009 Posted by | Water based Lacquers, Wood finishing | , , , , , | Leave a comment